No.4
ｷﾀ━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━!!
No.6
Hey, everyone! Originally I had a big wall of text that I typed up as a landing area for outsiders coming here and an introduction to /hsn/, but my dumb ass lost it to a rogue CTRL+C, and it was honestly a bit rich anyway, so I'd like to talk to you a little more directly in a (1/?) format. I'll get the gloomy stuff out of the way first.
I don't know if I'm the only person who was really, really affected by seeing how brutally 4chan janitors and mods have fucked up Homestuck discussion on /v/ and /co/ this past year, but anyone who's been present in the monthly stealth threads before or after the name "Homestealth" started cropping up knows that it was kind of like seeing a miracle baby being born and then having its head shoved back into it's mother's uterus. What's been happening there is, by all means, the succession of classic /hsg/, the beginning of something extremely compelling, and the best subculture to come out of the image board sphere in a very long time.
No.7
>>6(2/?)
I'm new to Megidochan, and, by all means, still haven't perfectly found my sea-legs when it comes to actually using image boards (I didn't know how to make a new thread here using the index, yeesh) despite having been on 4chan for over a decade now. /hot/ isn't intended to be a replacement for our /hsg/, nor is /hsn/. The reason I'm doing this is because the Homestuck threads on /v/ that have been picking up more and more steam over the last year are the most fun I've had on an image board in a very long time, something I'm sure many of you can sympathize with, and that's brought me and a lot of other anons some much-needed warmth in increasingly desperate times. It rent my heart to see 4chan mods intentionally rip those threads to pieces and completely crush the spirits of everyone involved; it was a calculated, intentional act of petty revenge, and the splintering and depression it caused was palpable. Nothing could ever feel truly stable when staff could take out hundreds of replies in an instant, and while that sense of danger provided excitement to a certain extent, it can't replace what those threads were actually supposed to be for.
No.9
>>7(3/3)
This general won't go steady immediately, nor will it recoup all those losses in one day, but I made it to ensure not just the remnants of /hsg/, not just the survivors of Homestealth, but in totality, every Homestuck on the internet that feels crushed by the wider awfulness of the normalfags affronting Homestuck as a project from both inside and out - astroturfers suffocating the threads on /v/ and /co/, attention-whoring Youtubers, shitty fake fans and production staff - /hsn/ will ensure that all the people running from these things have at least one place on the internet worth attending. I will do everything I can to reassemble the broken pieces of image board culture's Homestuck community into something as great as all that has come before, and hopefully unify everyone on the deeper internet with a house-shaped hole in their heart into a house-shaped thread that will fill the void, at least to some extent.
I'm very underslept and can't really find the words to convey myself without being this level of saccharine, so I'll just leave it at this for now: welcome to /hsn/. And. Yeah. It's called Homesteatlh NOT! because we do NOT! have to be stealthy any more.
Cheers to the first 1025 posts.
No.12
>>3You're a stupid fucking cunt.
No.14
>>3>>6>>7>>12Hypnobab, let me try to put in best of terms of what I wanted this board to be before MEX had the misfortune of letting you shart out a general thread and why that made me angwy.
The way I see it, if we keep it this broad and this lazy, barely anyone is going to come and no one is going to stay. If I were to have launched the board, the rules and introduction would have been a lot more thorough.
It's your baby right now though, and you're free to do whatever the fuck you want with it, I just don't think it'll end well.
What I had wanted is a Homestuck community that wasn't like anywhere else
Biznasty on RIGOR and REASON that was actually critical of the comic unlike Funk McLovin or Fridgestuck's mindless self-indulgence.
Right now, it's fucked, I'm not going to edit the sticky and rules, but I would have wanted this basically to be Homestuck Hermeneutics General (HHG) with the following things emphasized:
>"Here's what we know about Homestuck's general process" (Very basic example, well-known; Hu¢¢ie had no real, written plans with the story)
>"Here's what we know influenced certain story decisions" (Bowman said that Toby was the one that introduced Hu¢¢ie to Rachel/Softowl, his girlfriend for some time. She was the one that Hu¢¢ie found inspiration to launch Hiveswap. Biznasty on this and the fact that Toby literally named Alternia, we can come to the conclusion that Toby, Softowl, and Hu¢¢ie were the major creative forces behind Alternia and its world-building.)
>"Here are some general patterns" (Hu¢¢ie has a tendency to reuse and remix character premises; he babbles in the commentaries about this being some embodiment of Platonic Idealism which is bullshit but okay.)
>"Here are some broad influences" (Hu¢¢ie was enamored with LOST and its Mystery Boxisms. This obviously influenced his "first" attempt at real, serious writing in a lot of ways.)
>(Outside of the direct text, Hu¢¢ie had an inner circle of friends that strongly influenced the story. I've come to suspect that certain things, like the initial troll names- which did not follow a pattern like the Beta Kid name choices and were seemingly "random-, were basically hand-picked by Hu¢¢ie himself and then lionized to the public by someone in the inner-circle suggesting it even though it was always going to be the name.)But it's not to be and all my ramblings about what Homestuck could have been and what APPEARS to have been the path Hu¢¢ie strayed from with all the mentions of Jung, alchemy, and structuralism simply just being an understated part of whatever you want this to be because I'll accept you as the B.M.O.C here.
No.15
>>14I don't understand how the first couple posts of this thread prevent this from happening. there's a whole board, you don't even need a general for any of these "critical" discussions to happen. I wasn't expecting there to even be a general, to be honest
No.16
>>15>I don't understand how the first couple posts of this thread prevent this from happeningBecause it's the foundation that there lay. I was planning on writing something rather extensive. If it's the only thing that's here, that's the board. If it's not, it's getting ignored.
I digress.
No.17
>>16I believe in you, anon. you can still write it
No.18
>>17I have no motivation to write it now. And it is ultimately still a group effort.
No.19
i can still take a crack at making HHG, if you want, although i don’t see why you can’t
No.20
>>19>if you want, although i don’t see why you can’tI would want to be exhaustive with my example questions. Ideally, much more than one example. Hu¢¢ie's inner-circle and all of the things we can (within reason) pin some degree of influence on Homestuck would be exhausting in itself. And that's just recollecting the stuff I think I know about.
I would also want to put certain chronological bullet points of BIG problems I have with Homestuck into the opening which again, takes some time.
And I only alluded to the "reconstructive" theses that I would want to be central, if only for vanity's sake.
I have a lot of writing (two word docs- one a truncated version that aims for a hypothetical version of Homestuck that solves the "main" problems) and a lot of shitty infographics.
Hypnofag, let me refocus the conversation for a second, will you make the nature of your project clear? Is it going to be in the style of an MSPFA or no; how's that for a start?
No.23
>>22the raid is over and i'm back
you're pushing rule 5. i don't want to be draconian but i'm not letting this thread turn into shitstirring immediately. go work on your hermeneutics thread if you want to help the site
No.24
>>23This isn't an outside grudge and we're both literally mods.
I was literally giving you an opening to express yourself. Why are you so damn prickly?
No.25
>>24alright, whatever
something you should know about me is that i have more or less infinite ideas for creative projects. it's been my main thing since i was literally a toddler and if you were to try to put a number on the amount of projects i've ever been interested in, it would number in the four digits easilyhowever, if we're talking projects i'm brainstorming for in the time period "of the now", to put it ED-style, i could probably list about six larger projects i want to try. one of them is a traditional MSPFA; i've been bouncing back and forth as to whether i want to take the constraints off fully and just do whatever i feel like with it, or attempt it as a reverse-engineering of the original Homestuck run with an analogous set of schema and systems, but there are a few problems with that, like my lack of experience with higher-level Photoshop editing (along with only having access to CS2, but all of MSPFA does as well) and the fact that i struggle with the mechanics of the inventory system and alchemy because i'm not a mathbrain beyond my ability to work with symbols, so maybe i could have when i was 12 if i practiced enough, but not now
i think for the sake of ease, my first project will be something more like Jailbreak and i can probably run it on the creative board here whenever that goes live
No.26
>>25It might be because I'm burnt out for the stalker shitfit but I'm drawing a blank now.
There's a way to work my ideas into helping you accomplish your thing but… ugh… whatever right now…
No.28
>>27Something funny, jackass?
No.29
>>27>>28It's so fucking easy for a dumb motherfucker to laugh and guffaw at how ostentatious those concepts seem in relation to Homestuck but let's go back to early Hu¢¢ie's elevator pitch about "an elaborate creation mythos involving lot of time travel"; verbatim, 2010.
First of all, there's alchemy in the fucking comic so I don't think evoking specific concepts of alchemy is that big of a stretch on any level. Jung wrote extensively about alchemy and its symbolism. Jung and structuralist shared a baseline thought that "[SIC] mythos was an innate way of understanding the world" and Jung tackled the individual and collective psychology of this while structuralism aimed to categorize and analyze the ways human pattern things.
Now, tell me, do you have any legitimate grievances in relating to these to Homestuck or is it just "not that deep bwo" so you can never make it "deep." Does your retarded ass care about anything other than his
homosexualy ships?
No.30
>>29no one cares about dead psychologists’ opinions of the world
No.31
so is the godtier death determining clock a juju or no
No.32
>>30>Le no one cares about dead white guysRetarded, go roll in the mud.
No.33
>>31Yes, that's presumably why the crowbar was used (though it was probably intended to be more important.)
No.35
>>34He's the hater for replying to desires for creative reconstruction with "I can't believe how stupid old philosophers were.
The older the dumber." tier investment.
No.37
>>36I tend not to remember exact instances of Homestuck dialogue because it's mostly retarded and unfunny even if particular instances are funny, your eyes perpetually rolling over does a lot to your long-term memory.
No.39
>>35enjoy getting told to take your meds every time you have an original thought on one of these fucking websites
No.40
>>39Enjoy being a dumb fuck and me calling you a dumb fuck then.
No.41
John.
Would you like me to put you to sleep?
No.42
>>41Homestuck discussion!
No.43
And now remember what I said about Homestealthers.
No.44
>>31>>33ohh shit huh
i never thought about it like that
i thought it was just some pure
metaphorical thing i guess.
No.45
>>44Nothing in Homestuck is purely metaphorical because good writers can be satisfied with pure metaphor.
No.46
>>33>>44i thought it was stated somewhere that the juju breaker also undoes the effects of the juju but i could be wrong, the clock is just strange in general its also the origin of the magic cueball and stuff
No.47
>>43you failed the stealth check
No.48
>>46>i thought it was stated somewhere that the juju breaker also undoes the effects of the juju but i could be wrongFrankly, I'm not sure of that but don't expect Andy Jr. to remember such a thing because the crowbar itself basically turned into an afterthought.
>the clock is just strange in general its also the origin of the magic cueball and stuffKnowing the general complications with the animators, it could be that Caliborn destroying the clock was from another draft of the ending where he effectively undoes the creation of Lord English himself in attempt to prevent his own defeat with something similar to what Aranea's plan happening was. That's just speculation though. And I'm someone who tends to say a lot of speculation as fact so yeah, take that with a grain of salt.
>>47Har har.
No.50
considering making an updated version of the Hu¢¢ie tier list with EVERYTHING instead of, like, 30 things
No.51
>>50You mean the power tier list…? You're that guy?
No.52
>>51no, just a tier list of everything he's ever made or worked on
No.53
>>52"Everything below C except for Problem Sleuth"
No.54
>>53Problem Sleuth is not better than Homestuck and i genuinely believe people who think that are normalfags with a grudge against Andrew
No.55
>>53my friend who hasn't read homestuck recently read problem sleuth and said that she "cheered" at the ending
i had no idea it was like some great thing. maybe i should go back and read it.
No.56
>>55it's definitely one of his stronger projects, but people hype it up as being better than Homestuck because the lore-heaviness and fetishism present in Homestuck disturb them. the only thing Problem Sleuth did objectively better than Homestuck is not compromise on its vision
No.57
>>54>Problem Sleuth is not better than Homestuck"Yes, it is."
>normalfags Why is that your buzzword of choice? The fuck does it even mean in this context?
>>55It's not some great thing. That's what makes it good. Girls are fucking stupid.
Problem Sleuth is just an enjoyable farce. Homestuck is a monotonous hodgepodge with character writing that made me grit my teeth at the best of times.
>>56> because the lore-heaviness and fetishism present in Homestuck disturb them.That's quite a way to put something incorrectly.
No.58
>>57>character writing that made me grit my teeth at the best of times.i think where character writing is actually done its pretty decent. from my pov moreso the problem is that huššie isnt very good, or thinks he isnt very good, at developing characters longer term, and so he just constantly introduces new ones that never really get developed and kills off old ones.
No.61
>>58When there's narrator POV commentary, yes, sure, but the pervasive smarminess is a little much, even compared to Problem Sleuth.
This and general character-writing get worse as the comic go on.
>>59>>60Is this your shitty, fucked up idiosyncratic "gotcha" because I really couldn't less of a fuck that my opinion is tangentially related to some dipshit on YouTube.
No.63
>>61>narrator POV commentaryi like when characters get into like feelings jams and shit too tho
No.64
>>63Those are almost unanimously completely terrible except for the post-Trickster one which is ironically, the most hated one (besides the Dave/Dirk one.)
I can pick apart each and every one of those (including the post-Trickster one.)
No.65
>>64ok well maybe i kinda like them :( and actually maybe they were some of my favorite bits :(
No.66
>>65I'm sorry to tell you that the most favorable read of that is you were desperately grasping at straws for substantial character content so you put your blinders on for all context.
No.67
>>66you might be right but hey i still enjoyed it
No.68
Has Sturdy been informed of this yet?
I know "they don't want to talk about Homestuck" and all
No.69
>>68No, and fuck them. I don't even think the Anons that remember particularly cared for my presence and that'd be the "biggest draw" in the hugest fucking quotes I can fathom.
No.70
>>29You're writing a high school essay about "themes" because you think it makes you sound smart, which is funny. No one cares about how random bullshit concepts some dead kike made up "relate to" a story. Hu¢¢ie was not directly inspired by these ideas and linking them together doesn't clarify anything or add anything to the story. Go make a video essay about it so other retards can feel like erudite geniuses for having a surface level understanding of philosophy.
No.71
>>70>You're writing a high school essay about "themes" because you think it makes you sound smart, which is funny.No, these are definitive ways to structure something- Homestuck, a story, with an innate fucking structure to it- that being the videogame that controls reality desperately requires some kind of framework for ideas for it to function as a story. It's not necessary that these functions convey a greater purpose (that are inspired by philosophy, psychology, and sociology) but they easily lead into that and so..?
>Hu¢¢ie was not directly inspired by these ideasDebatable, frankly, but that much is tenuous. The point is to make it less tenuous.
>linking them together doesn't clarify anything or add anything to the story. Absolutely retarded stance to take. Please tell me the specifics of Jungian alchemy and structuralism. Do you know what they are? Or are ideas from philosophers and intellectuals just not worth adding inherently because "uh you'd have to change the story around a bit" Do tell me the depths of your disagreement. I'm sure it's as well-founded as my investment.
>Go make a video essay about it so other retards can feel like erudite geniuses for having a surface level understanding of philosophy.As opposed to your knee-jerk anti-intellectualism.
No.72
>>70>Hu¢¢ie was not directly inspired by these ideaslots of people culturally absorb patterns and ideas and include them in their work without necessarily being aware of that. so these frameworks can sometimes serve as a valuable lens to analyze the work regardless of intentionality imo
No.73
>>70Also, neither Jung nor Saussure were Jewish so unless kike means to you "Swiss", I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
>THEMES BAD>CONCEPTS BAD>I'VE SEEN MINDLESS SELF-INDULGENCE BEFORE SO HAVING ANY INTELLECTUAL INFLUENCE ON YOUR STORY IS BAD EVEN IF THERE'S A CLEAR THROUGH-LINE CONNECTING ALL OF THEM AND IT SERVES A CLEAR NARRATIVE PURPOSE. Neck yourself, you fucking simpleton.
No.75
And I could explain the rationale but if the automatic reaction is "XD" and I had to use excerpts that's just prime for prodding because "uhhh its not that deep bwo" and I would drive a car into your house before actually getting into the main point.
No.76
>>74By who? Fucking Belgians?
No.78
>>77Imagine undermining the importance of Scandinavia and Germany in philosophy. What are you left with? The French and Russian? Don't make me vomit.
No.79
>>78DURR HURR, SWITZERLAND ISN'T A PART OF SCANDINAVIA, CLASSIC STUPID FUCKING AMERICAN
No.80
Too angry to see straight. I know you don't have shit. You just have smug
bullshit on your side.
No.82
I said Switzerland was a part of Scandinavia so feel free to dismiss literally any of my ideas on how you could use these things to improve Homestuck as completely baseless and ill-founded because of the faux-pas
>>81"durrhurr fuck jung that jew xD"
No.84
>>83I know, and fuck them, they're fucking retarded.
No.85
>>71>>73>No, these are definitive ways to structure something- Homestuck, a story, with an innate fucking structure to it- that being the videogame that controls reality desperately requires some kind of framework for ideas for it to function as a story.Meaningless nonsense.
>The point is to make it less tenuous.…why bother?
>Please tell me the specifics of Jungian alchemy and structuralism. Do you know what they are?You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You only started reading an introductory PDF about "structuralism" last month.
>>>/hsg/51234Only a retarded poser thinks they understand "the specifics of" philosophy and that philosophy can be "added" to something.
>>THEMES BAD"Analysing themes" is a retarded waste of time.
>>THERE'S A CLEAR THROUGH-LINE CONNECTING ALL OF THEM AND IT SERVES A CLEAR NARRATIVE PURPOSEThat isn't true. You want it to be true because it would make you a genius intellectual guy who saw the deep philosophical patterns that no one else can understand because they didn't read 1.5 chapters of a PDF.
>>72>these frameworks can sometimes serve as a valuable lens Is there any valuable insight here? I haven't seen anything beyond "this RANDOM WORD is LINKED to Homestuck".
If there was anything material worth discussing then I'm sure he could use plain English to explain it. As opposed to just mentioning fancy words and hinting at deep understanding. Perhaps he could make an offhand reference to a philosophical term to add context. But "hurr guys I just discovered a written story from a culture is linked to a theory that tries to explain all of language and culture" is retarded.
No.86
>>85analyzing themes sounds pretty cool to me!!
No.87
>>85>Meaningless nonsense.Reductive. The story is about alchemy and a structure. These broad concepts relate to people and how they relate to a very observable abstract structure.
>…why bother?Cool response.
>Only a retarded poser thinks they understand "the specifics of" philosophy and that philosophy can be "added" to something.It's a reconstruction. It's not the same comic.
>"Analysing themes" is a retarded waste of time.Retarded sentence. "Analyzing characters is a waste of time."
>That isn't true.Yes, it fucking is. I alluded as much with
>but let's go back to early Hu¢¢ie's elevator pitch about "an elaborate creation mythos involving lot of time travel"; verbatim, 2010.>Jung and structuralist shared a baseline thought that "[SIC] mythos was an innate way of understanding the world" and Jung tackled the individual and collective psychology of this while structuralism aimed to categorize and analyze the ways human pattern things.>Is there any valuable insight here?I've written about before. Maybe keep an open mind before seeing WORDS and instinctively going into flight-or-fight ("As opposed to just mentioning fancy words." " But "hurr guys I just discovered a written story from a culture is linked to a theory that tries to explain all of language and culture" is retarded." UGH, IT MUST BE BULLSHIT, MY FIRST INSTINCT MUST BE TO TELL HIM TO FUCK OFF INSTEAD OF ASKING HIM TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF.)
Like, let's stop here. Is reverse-engineering a story like this always fucking retarded and beneath you or not? If it is, I won't bother to compose myself because it's going on deaf ears. If it isn't, fuck you for responding like this in the first place.
No.90
>>87And obviously this post is written like shit because I'm fuming.
No.91
In short, I want a fucking apology.
No.92
>>87i think analyzing both themes and characters sounds pretty cool guys!
No.93
Also, I don't like to share my ideas in public because they're supposed to be released fully-realized so I've been thinking about how to word it.
No.94
>>87>These broad concepts relate to people and how they relate to a very observable abstract structure."In this essay I will…"
>>Jung and structuralist shared a baseline thought that "[SIC] mythos was an innate way of understanding the world" and Jung tackled the individual and collective psychology of this while structuralism aimed to categorize and analyze the ways human pattern things.So every story is actually LINKED to Jung and "structuralist [sic]" because there are patterns and references to other things? Wow that tells me fucking NOTHING and I don't care at all.
>I've written about before. Maybe keep an open mind before seeing WORDS and instinctively going into flight-or-fightI haven't seen you write about this nearly as much as you have written about writing about it. Let me guess, this deep philosophical insight mostly exists inside your head and you can't elaborate on it in a way that doesn't sound like retarded gibberish?
>If it is, I won't bother to compose myself because it's going on deaf ears.>And obviously this post is written like shit because I'm fuming.You're having trouble expressing yourself because you have nothing substantial to say.
>>91Yeah this whole crashout definitely isn't some BPD defense mechanism. You are also a retarded narcissistic pseud.
No.95
>>94>"In this essay I will…"Piss off. I told you it wasn't written like shit.
>So every story is actually LINKED to Jung and "structuralist [sic]" because there are patterns and references to other things? Wow that tells me fucking NOTHING and I don't care at all.Hu¢¢ie CALLED IT A MYTHOS, YOU DENSE RETARD.
>Let me guess, this deep philosophical insight mostly exists inside your head and you can't elaborate on it in a way that doesn't sound like retarded gibberish?Let me guess, you're an asshole?
>You're having trouble expressing yourself because you have nothing substantial to say.Cunt. I'm still writing it by the way.
>Yeah this whole crashout definitely isn't some BPD defense mechanism.Ooh, look at who's the intellectual now. That's not how anything works.
>You are also a retarded narcissistic pseud.Any other buzzwords you want to throw in there, dipshit?
No.96
>>95>Hu¢¢ie CALLED IT A MYTHOS, YOU DENSE RETARD.Yeah it's an English word that people use, guessing you first heard it in "Jung explained in 5 minutes" on Youtube?
>Cunt. I'm still writing it by the way.Go ahead then. Maybe you have something interesting to point out but I'm not counting on it.
>Any other buzzwords you want to throw in there, dipshit?You very obviously have a personality disorder and I'm sure you're aware of this. Maybe try to show a bit more restraint and self-awareness for the sake of others?
No.97
I will boil this down to the most basic level and have zero jargon.
Homestuck is a story, I should think, be about modern technology and children being forced to grow up too quickly. Alchemy is an important concept to this for a number of reasons. Alchemy represents multiple forms of change and in Jungian terms reflects the individual's self-discovery through contrast to the outside world and those both defining each other (already an element in Homestuck with its stable loops.)
In structuralism and Jung, it is understood that the mythos is an innate language. This, in my version of the story, would be SBurb and its "Mythological Roles" forcing itself onto children who aren't ready for its responsibilities and forcing itself to propagate. I think the inherent "metaphoric language" also relates to alchemy and all its relations in-game and the other languages utilized in various mechanics (I would distinguish them in ways so that the Kids could ultimately exploit them and overcome the larger structure of SBurb- say Fraymotifs, music, are understood to be structurally different than language- we can say that this is traditional alchemy- and they have overlapping though no identical functions.)
The utterance of structuralism is less about what ideas it brings to the table but more in reigning in the incredibly abstract ideas of alchemy and time travel to be understood within a structuralist framework (-just like there are vague connections to data structures- and to be distinct when you do so- so that they can be exploited by our human players.)
I can go into more detail if you like but I'm 90% sure you will just dismiss this as more faffing about.
No.98
>>96>Yeah it's an English word that people use, guessing you first heard it in "Jung explained in 5 minutes" on Youtube?Ignoring connotations to be dismissive doesn't make you seem smart. It doesn't make me seem smart either. You just never went into this with good faith.
>Go ahead then. Maybe you have something interesting to point out but I'm not counting on it.Of course. Asshole.
>Maybe try to show a bit more restraint and self-awareness for the sake of others?Maybe stop being a cunt? Ever think about that?
No.99
>>97Oh, wait, there was one (1) piece of jargon.
I can say more. But if you dismiss this, I will leave the board and never come back.
No.102
>>101My emotions are already running high. If one of the regulars thinks that fucking lowly of me after I open up about "my reconstructive ideas" even just a little then I might as well not exist.
No.104
>>103I said I would leave, retard. You going to ban me for leaving this board for drama that started on this board? Moron?
No.105
>>104you’re just being annoying and making it clear that all the insults you’ve had for me since i got here were projection, which is not something i say lightly
No.106
>>105Yeah, okay,
DERSITE.
No.107
>>97>Alchemy represents multiple forms of change and in Jungian terms reflects the individual's self-discovery through contrast to the outside world and those both defining each other (already an element in Homestuck with its stable loops.)Who. Fucking. Cares?
Referencing Jung doesn't tell me anything relevant. I already know Homestuck is about children growing up and being forced to fill certain roles to create a universe. I don't need to know who Jung is to understand that. The only thing you've achieved is jerking yourself off.
>in my version of the storyUhhhh
DERSITE what? We were supposed to be talking about Homestuck, not you.
>I think the inherent "metaphoric language" also relates to alchemy and all its relations in-game and the other languages utilized in various mechanics (I would distinguish them in ways so that the Kids could ultimately exploit them and overcome the larger structure of SBurb- say Fraymotifs, music, are understood to be structurally different than language- we can say that this is traditional alchemy- and they have overlapping though no identical functions.) And?
GREEN "relates to" green because of her text colour. I don't care if you call elements of the story "languages" or "alchemy". It tells me nothing useful. You aren't using those labels to explain anything, you're just labeling them for the sake of it.
>The utterance of structuralism is less about what ideas it brings to the table but more in reigning in the incredibly abstract ideas of alchemy and time travel to be understood within a structuralist framework (-just like there are vague connections to data structures- and to be distinct when you do so- so that they can be exploited by our human players.)Time travel, data structures, and alchemy (assuming you mean the Alchemiter here not Jung's nonsense), are directly present in Homestuck's plot and setting, and are not especially vague or difficult to understand. There's nothing of substance you have used this philosophical framework to say that you couldn't say without it. In fact you're only introducing more abstraction and vagueness.
No.108
>>107> I don't need to know who Jung is to understand that. The only thing you've achieved is jerking yourself off.You didn't understand what I said.
>Uhhhh DERSITE what? We were supposed to be talking about Homestuck, not you.This was always about a rewrite of Homestuck. Not it as written though there is some relevance.
>You aren't using those labels to explain anything, you're just labeling them for the sake of it.The point was to relate it to structuralism. They would use different structures in order to undermine the game.
>and are not especially vague or difficult to understand. I disagree.
>In fact you're only introducing more abstraction and vagueness.Abstraction, yes. Vagueness, no.
Okay, bye.
No.109
An example of a non-masturbatory use of philosophy would be to describe a story within a particular philosophical frame, then use those concepts to explain how the story relates to real life.
But if there is no such connection, or if the analogy between the story and real life is already obvious without the need for philosophy, don't bother. This guy clearly has no worthwhile insight to express, anyway.
No.110
>>108>Okay, bye.I was listening…
No.111
>>108i would just like to say i think a lot of ur points are smart and correct and i think you should keep posting. your contribution and your self are valuable :3
No.114
>>109An example of non-masturbatory philosophy would be this extremely limiting conception of its usages that I pulled out of my ass. Integrating it into the story itself is masturbatory for no provided reason and you shouldn't do it lol.
No.120
>>119the underage part is neither here nor there but I always liked punk vriska… i thought she was cool…
No.122
>>121im just saying i like the aesthetic okay!
besides hasn't she like mentally aged? i dont think you would say meenah is "underage" really for example.
No.123
>>122hypnotic punk girls are factually hot
No.125
>>124ohh ok
i genuinely didn't know that
wow thats sort of a little fucked up that meenah basically dated an underage girl. not gonna think about it too much
and also yeah as an aranea lover ur probably obsessed with a more librarian-goth aesthetic or something.
No.128
>>126yes i read the comic!! i just didnt pay close attention to the ages!
but you are right wow i never really thought much about what meenah did but fuck she was kind of a huge asshole actually huh. damn.
and ive honestly never seen anyone in real life with the half shaven hair thing which makes me think its not that overused. i would think it was cool though!
No.129
>>128the person who introduced me to Homestuck kiiind of had the half-shaven head thing, probably because of Homestuck, and it was very hot and i did have a crush on her
No.130
>>129the person that introduced me to homestuck was/is also kind of a punky/gothy girl who is hot.
damn.
some kind of fucking pattern going on here. disturbing.
No.131
Guys, timeplayer just jumped out of nowheen and asked me to inform posters
>>144 - Dream on, baby, dream>>163 - Noooooooooo! Don't even think about it!>>188 - lol, you homosexual. Why you gay?And then timeplayer jumped off of our timeline back in whatever his timeline is
No.134
>>133To make the religious angle more understandable, John is obviously eating the Fruit of Knowledge, Rose is christening a ship- It's fucking Noah's arc for some reason. Dave's?
https://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/667075/jewish/The-Egg-in-Exodus.htm “patience” (Hu¢¢ie's Formspring answer about the Entry items) which does not fit Dave but would fit the Bible (and is a general symbol of Christ)? Green breaks every rule; this is known. All have snake Denizens except Dave (because he is symbolically Christ who was never tempted) Defeating snake seems less important when it's no longer just John, the apple eater. Moreover, Rose seems to have the least importance to her out of the three; Rose and ships seemed to be a thing for Hu¢¢ie? Why? Who fucking cares?
*This is an image that explains Dave's inexplicable, incredibly understated ability to have his dreamself awake before the game and (hazily) simultaneously. Also, :egg!:
Synchronicity would be the previous session affecting the unpredictability within alchemy and enantiodromia being prototyping affecting the enemies. The Hero's Journey (observed by Jung's work as the quintessential struggle for the Hero archetype, to face the anima, and the unconscious and overcome it- "[They] are as a rule the legendary heroes of mankind, the very ones who are looked up to, loved, and worshipped, the true sons of God whose names perish not. … Their greatness has never lain in their abject submission to convention, but, on the contrary, in their deliverance from convention. They towered up like mountain peaks above the mass that still clung to its collective fears, its beliefs, laws, and systems, and boldly chose their own way" This is how I would define John- the classes would be slightly obfuscated rebrandings of Jungian archetypes and the aspects would simply be Gods that correlate to their element- and why I think Jester (Zanni) imagery was important to him early on.) as the most pure version of the "metaphorical language" would also be important to the story and its structure.
No.135
>>133>>134God, I hate this site but I didn't want to download these photos. It sharts when I try to post screenshots but doesn't recognize them as duplicates.
No.138
>>134>>136This conflates a lot of what I think was intentional symbology with what I think could be useful symbology like you did. If it sounds far-fetched, it's probably something I think is in the comic because Hu¢¢ie is an asshole like that.
If it's a broad conceptual pattern (Jacob's Latter or Perpetua), it's something that I think would have meaning in the ultimate narrative.
>>134*This is an image that explains Dave's inexplicable, incredibly understated ability to have his dreamself awake before the game and (hazily) simultaneously. Also,
Ugh, even this is a mess.I am mixed on how much of Jung Hu¢¢ie knew or what sources he had. I am 100% sure he had some vague musings about the subconscious always planned in the comic given dreamselves ("something something Dave's intuition is woven into the timeline" and "waking self" being a direct Freudism which seems like a strange warding to come to otherwise) so it's unclear if he read a bit or had a friend who was into it. Given how muddled and undermined it gets as the comic goes on, I'd ascertain it was the latter. Presumably, who could have been part of the real-life inspiration for Rose (even some of the trolls were based off real life people that we can directly point to: see, Gamzee. I would get more into that but they fucked up the Wiki)
The Biblical shit, as ostentatious and cluttered as it is, seems very deliberate since a huge bunch of Act 6 (and Epilogues) is dedicated to forcing allegories and shoving round pegs into square holes symbolically. I'm not someone who would say that Homestuck has strong roots in really any religious content despite the seeming perseverance of its presence. The Gnostic, Jainist, and Zoroastrian angles are mostly window-dressing and self-indulgence.
Now listen to these stupid AIs trying to understand my (and others') unorganized musings:
https://files.catbox.moe/epwhpu.ogg No.139
>>137I gave an ultimatum for MEX that I didn't think he'd actually comply with (
)
But if this doesn't convince Mr.
of at least my earnestness, then oh, well.
I was thinking of making my own pet board. MEX called it a "Three Kingdoms Approach."
> I would get more into that but they fucked up the WikiNo, but seriously, who runs this shit?
No.140
>>138*wording
No.141
>>137I feel like he's still going to say much the same things which will hurt my feelings again.
"uh why reference other things if the story is still vaguely about the same things"
No.142
>>134>Synchronicity would be the previous session affecting the unpredictability within alchemy *Jung considered Western Zodiacs to be the ultimate form of synchronicity because it associated the chronology of the cosmos with the chronology of our Earth.
I have an inkling that this is what inspired Hu¢¢ie to conceive of the trolls as we know them to begin with but I wouldn't make a definitive statement on such a thing.
No.143
And if you're really wondering about the relevance of any given thing, you could just ask me pointed questions instead of just "Fuck any of this."
No.144
>>134>All have snake Denizens except Dave (because he is symbolically Christ who was never tempted) Timely…
No.145
>>138>41 MINUTE slopcast
to be honest, I'm not sure using the AI's guesses as your starting point will appeal to your "audience", since it sounded like they really wanted you to approach with a fully-formulated explanation. it's a little hard to follow (at least without the same background as you). I can tell there are lots of ideas here though
No.146
>>145It's basically worthless though it does allude to the criticisms not really found in the other images.
It leaves out important details though and of course, conflates things.
I would say there's one (1) key element that neither my commentary nor the AI makes apparent. The rest could be prodded but this I'd basically have to spell out because the AI skimmed over it so hard for "DAVE FIRE DISCOURSE"
No.148
>>147I'm not sure how diligent I was with copying them all to my word document (and if I transferred them to the shorter one or felt they were more relevant to the larger one) so you might find something legitimately new from that.
I'm going to look through some keyterms real quick though.
No.149
>>147>>148Probably not what you were thinking of but the Horrorterrors vs. Lord English as an ultimate actor for SBurb diatribe was there.
No.150
>>148>>149I was thinking of one where you talked about the themes of Sburb as an imposing force, both on the universe and the kids.
I'll search for it later.
No.151
>>134>Rose is christening a ship- It's fucking Noah's arc for some reasonHuh? I don't get what or why it's Noah's ark. Her house is?
Because it's raining when she enters?
No.152
>>151>Huh? I don't get what That's how Hu¢¢ie described it on the Formsprings- as christening a ship. Her entry item is breaking a bottle.
>Because it's raining when she enters?The world is basically one big ocean. And there are rainbows. Bible 101: the arch of the rainbow was God's message to man that he'd never fuck them hard ever again.
The etymology of "sin" is essentially about arches, to "miss the mark" hence Equius, his complex, and his relationship to Lord English (a Satanic figure who has a rainbow arch on his cloak.)
This example is a good one for showing that Hu¢¢ie has the potential to make weird, eclectic references that don't matter much. Homestuck was not a one man operation. He had time to think and plan shit out and this is what he came up with. But like I said
>>138>I'm not someone who would say that Homestuck has strong roots in really any religious content despite the seeming perseverance of its presence.I think there was some strong Christianity in early Homestuck that more or less petered out into mindless self indulgence as the comic went on.
No.153
>>152Yeah, I got the breaking bottle part, my brain somehow didn't make the connection between it and escaping the end of the world.
No.154
>>133>>134>>135>>136>>138>>139I think part of the reason why the AI summary was borked was that I had repeated some passages accidentally so some stuff got brushed over and the AI thought "Well, the same exact thing was said twice so it has to be more important." I tidied that up now.
I think part of the reason why the AI summary was borked was that I had repeated some passages accidentally so some stuff got brushed over and the AI thought "Well, the same exact thing was said twice so it has to be more important." I tidied that up now.
No.155
>>138Though this was me just testing the NotebookLM's servers, this new slopcast is a lot more useful (though not entirely) in summarizing things (me deleting two repeat paragraphs seemed to shave off 20 minutes for some reason.)
Obviously, it still sucks and gets stuck on shit that doesn't matter because I didn't edit my copy-paste of certain ideas to be more fitting for the aim of this more centralized document.
>Conflates Dave with GREEN in a specific part>Inexplicable fixation on the 90s thingVGH.
No.156
I should note that I also wanted to include the media study theories of McLuhan and, interconnectedly, Gestalt psychology to further ground the alchemical systems of Homestuck (of which I propose there be multiple, of varying scale, and which time travel should near-singularly be a vehicle for interconnecting) but I've never read any official works on that. So you can call me a phony on that.
McLuhan's media theory is useful for being a substrata of alchemy regarding GAMES and THE INTERNET in this story about children growing up in the age of mass communication technology. I have only vague inklings on how to best embody a "MEDIUM" relationship through the mechanics of the comic. The GAME part could easily be "The Ultimate Alchemy" (The Great Work) though THE INTERNET is a bit trickier. My idea is that their messaging platform, Pesterchum was secretly a part of SBurb and so that their conversations can easily be encrypted or decrypted as ~ATH. Actually, given the nature of ~ATH, it's surprising that Hu¢¢ie never emphasized the element of how it works with the AIM technology everyone uses. But that's far from the most obvious connection Hu¢¢ie has missed.
Gestalt psychology ironically "fits like a puzzle" into punchcard alchemy.
I should put a couple things forward for what I want to accomplish with adding these conceptual constraints around alchemy.
1. I want alchemy to be multilayered. (Client and Server.)
2. I want alchemy to require cooperation in set sequences.
3. I want alchemy to be irreversible and unrepeatable.
But again, I should probably save this talk for /HHG/
No.158
>>156>The GAME part could easily be "The Ultimate Alchemy" (The Great Work)I assume you'd intend to have alchemy expanded to more than item mixing.
Does Homestuck itself conceptualize Alchemy beyond that? Were the frogs ever referred to as alchemy?
I remember little. To meaningfully contribute to this conversation I would need to properly reread Homestuck.
No.160
Test.
No.163
>>158>Does Homestuck itself conceptualize Alchemy beyond that?Yes, when all of the Houses shit out their grist to make the new universe- that's the Ultimate Alchemy.
>Were the frogs ever referred to as alchemy?No.
No.164
>>133I agree that Homestuck SHOULD have been set in 1999, but only because Hu¢¢ie CANNOT write late-millennials. A John who at least remembers the tail end of the 80s would be easier for Hu¢¢ie, and it would make more sense for him to be into all those 90s movies.
No.165
>>164That was where it started, everything past that was further rationalizing or me realizing the potential of stuff implied by the Beta.
No.166
>>164>>165So he'd be born in 1986 instead of 96? Ouch…
No.167
Breath and Light do have a decent amount of similarities when you ignore the dumb "freedom" and "luck" things, and treat Breath mostly as a poetic expression of "wind," which seems like it was maybe the original intent. They're both powerful natural forces that humans can't really perceive directly. They're also commonly portrayed as guides (wind often carrying things or people, where as light merely shows the way). This actually ends up highlighting the big difference between John and GREEN. John tends to bumble his way down the right path without really knowing how or why a bit haphazardly, where as GREEN can see the path clearly and tries to clear the way for it.
No.168
The weird part is Breath and Blood also have really good synergy when treating Breath as the bodily function (and "freedom" vs "bonds" is actually a nice duality, too"), so then we start having to go like "is breath extra special" or "does every aspect have an agreeing and disagreeing dual or is breath just extra cool because its the main characters one (ignore tavros)"
No.169
>>167> John tends to bumble his way down the right path without really knowing how or why a bit haphazardly, where as GREEN can see the path clearly and tries to clear the way for it.The opposite would be true in my ideally written Homestuck.My connection between Light and Breath was "pneuma"; texture being active with fire and earth.
Granted, this requires making the "Breath" character earth and not wind but so help me God if I have to rewrite more of this shitshow and I can go on about how the elemental waters are muddied in the comic proper. I would say "Breath" is a good case for "not being wind" when you have Space in the question and you need something fucking bound to the troposphere, but I digress.
That is to say that pneuma connected to the ancient Greek understanding of "atomism" and so Breath and Light would be different ways of scrutinizing knowledge down to its most basic components in different ways; how we do this depends on more philosophical jargon.
TL;DR: What you said.
>>168The joke is that Blood is shit because Tavros does what, ideally, should only be a Blood player's job. Glad Tavros got to do something- hate that it was at the expense of Karkat who's basically a walking punchline by the end of the comic
Again, in my rewrite, there would only be four aspects (directly related to the four classic elements) that are to by indirectly referred to by the names of different God (still Denizens). 12 is fucking stupid and requires so many mental gymnastics to try and make them all distinct and meaningful, see:
>>157 No.170
I mean ultimately the thing that makes the most sense is "The classpects are generated completely from the ground up for each given session" instead of them being these very specific fundamentals of Sburb. They're still rooted in Sburb fundamentals, but also Sburb is able to stretch them to fit the players etc.
No.171
>>170>I mean ultimately the thing that makes the most sense is "The classpects are generated completely from the ground up for each given session" That's ultimately how my system would work more or less.
>them being these very specific fundamentals of Sburb. That's verbatim how it works in the comic.
Is this a roundabout compliment or was this just an unrelated thought in your head?
No.173
Hey! I'm rookieanon from
>>>/hsg/So, I thought I'd begin namefagging here since I'll be sharing a resource that I've been using for a long time in order to assess classpects but only as a base, and I really hope this can help at least one of you guys out when it comes to addressing or even viewing how certain characters could behave. It's not an exact science…
https://forum.homestuck.xyz/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1818&p=20889I'm currently also trying to make it an archive.is incase hs.xyz ever goes down.
besides that, i'll make another post in just a minute to put my thoughts together when it comes to classpecting, although it is more of an amalgam of ideas that I hold, and that aren't as concise because I haven't read a lot of Carl Jung, I admit
No.174
>>173>https://forum.homestuck.xyz/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1818&p=20889See:
>>157
>I haven't read a lot of Carl Jung, I admit"I haven't either" but it's more of a focused read. Archetypes (via classpects) can be very loosely interpreted. Jung's psychological interpretation of alchemy, however, I have an entire book reading about and which he has spent a significant amount of his career on.
Mythological Roles are less directly related to alchemy but part of how I'd rewrite Homestuck is to make (hypothetically, the working model is largely- since it itself is a bit of an amalgamation and somewhat internally inconsistent, and is also coincidentally the version Jung most focuses on- the Hellenistic version of) alchemical processes and symbols (and the Jungian interpretations thereof) more thoroughly interconnected with everything else.
No.175
To start off, looking at the aspects and classes, I like to think for people and for (in-development) characters they would be rather arbitrary until Sburb actually triggers where it locks in specific roles and mythological goals for all of the characters, with all of them serving a purpose.
I'd like to think that almost all of the characters in Homestuck start off by basically having a "mask" in order to develop themselves, which can especially be seen with how all of the kids interact, some are shaped by paradoxical means [
GREEN], others are environmental [Dave], while others come just from basic interaction [Rose & John]
Like a vessel filling up a soul, it requires some sort of structure in order for the idea of "class" and "aspect" to exist
But only then, can a person's identity truly be formed when they reach a certain "climax" of stress; for us in the normal world it would most likely have to be facing our own mortality, similarly to how the Beta/Alpha kids had done through the death of a loved one, a traumatic event, or even just intense stress.
In homestuck however it is far more literal and more in your face, whether it is showing the rising tension outright through a meteor or )(IC and the identity gets solidified, where the mask finally comes off and the id finally forces the person to stop being unconscious and begin to realize their unconscious habits. Hell, this can also be seen throughout the story with the whole idea of the Alpha timeline, where if any character goes "unconscious" they begin to drift and decay, such as John following Terezi on a whim without thinking about the consequences, or even Jake allowing Aranea to 'tap into his potential'
The whole idea of the alpha timeline is to basically allow the "unconscious self" to be "conscious" – This is even emphasized with Jung, the "Undiscovered Self"
To put it briefly without reading the text, it's basically a book that Jung wrote in order to address the "mass-mindedness" of individuals, how to understand, self knowledge and the definition of self knowledge.
How this ties back to homestuck however is basically the players denying themself to submit to a dogmatic belief and to question everything, to be childlike in their approach, whether it is about the world or their identity. It's a clashing of "wills" or ideologies, testing it with the world as it is part of the larger will [Skaia/Sburb], where it binds them and are forced to select how they wish to approach themselves into the world and consequentially, themselves.
The best examples for these, the testing of ideology and "will" would be Dave, where he considers his clones his enemies, those who were unconscious and suffered their fate respectively for behaving in this mass of a single consciousness. The same could be said about Aradia, but not much context is really given.
TL;DR:
Classpecting is incoherent and irrational until an event shapes a person, a "realization" of their own mortality/self. As an amalgam of all their experiences, they begin to shape what class they decide by their "ideology" of the world, but are inevitably bound by Skaia to be with their aspect.
This is further solidified by the idea of the Alpha Timeline, forcing individuals to think of their actions all the time, but if you slip to "unconsciousness", doing something out of habit instead of rationality, you will get executed, because you have "given" control to a consciousness you cannot or wish to clash your ideals – comfortable with who you are.
This probably sounds like gibberish, I apologize if it does.
No.176
>>173>https://forum.homestuck.xyz/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1818&p=20889wow, you wrote all this?
damn, you're in pretty deep. I didn't expect you to be such a /hot/head from your casual demeanor when you showed up :^p
No.177
>>174I'm probably missing a lot of context when it comes to
>>157, so I'm really not sure what I'm looking at other than the dichotomies
>Mythological Roles are less directly related to alchemy but part of how I'd rewrite Homestuck is to make…alchemical processes and symbols…more thoroughly interconnected with everything else.Kind of like if you actually had the building blocks of "aspect"? Like grist???
I may be a bit thick, I apologize
> Archetypes (via classpects) can be very loosely interpreted. Jung's psychological interpretation of alchemy, however, I have an entire book reading about and which he has spent a significant amount of his career on.What do you suggest I read? Just so I have something to read while on break @ my job
No.178
>>176It's pretty old I admit! I did have a lot of help from an old friend and her own friend circle, though I've spent a lot of time just trying to refine the ideas and just how they can be interpreted.
Unrelated note, dude, I fucking hate Funk's way that they talk about aspects, but I like how they did classes, I have no idea why a lot of modern homestuck fans act like complete snobs about other ideas when their ideas are literally video related
"hurr hurr here's a new idea to break the chains of thought!"
(proceeds to do the same thing all the people previous to him have done only with music)
fucking jackass.
>damn, you're in pretty deep. I didn't expect you to be such a /hot/head from your casual demeanor when you showed up :^pi prefer acting like an idiot and like a normie, keeps me sane from the horrors of reality ;-P
No.179
>>175This is vaguely right ("there is a denial of a part of the self and a need for self-realization) but the rest is a strange misappropriation of psychobabbble because the unconscious, best exemplified by the Hero's Journey can never be overcome and is a natural "metabolic" process. Freud and Jung both came to the conclusion that ego defense mechanisms are natural and healthy and that one should strive ultimately for the sublimation of unconscious stress that will persist as long as we exist, basically.
Furthermore, the process of actualization of the "Undiscovered Self" is referred to as the process of individuation and the processes of several less mature ego defense mechanisms are recognized as failing to distinguish the ego and the other into a meaningful dichotomy (Freud often speaks of the "child-like megalomania" in less mature ego defense mechanisms and that manifests itself in what we will colloquially refer to as varieties of either derealization or depersonalization to keep it relatively simple.)
The unconsciousness or plurality of consciousness is also completely unreadable when the comic is taken as a whole because Ultimate Selves are a good (singularity) but you say Dave's selves were doomed because of their singular consciousness. Either way, they would be a singularity as a gestalt, just on different scales. The collective unconscious is also, especially in Jung, viewed as something uniform so I think you've failed to establish a meaningful dichotomy even we were to dismiss wide swathes of the comic. Moreover, in classic psychology, there isn't a pervasive pattern on classifying actions as (relatively) rational or (relatively) egocentric, rather it is more about what is ego-adjacent and what is a self-defense mechanism against a perceived incongruity with the ego. Also, I'm not sure if your interpretation agrees with the idea that as an entity, for the story, SKAIA should be objectively bad and what it's doing is forcing kids to prematurely mature. You also weren't clear if you even though the pattern of behavior it was enforcing (though the logic is somewhat incomprehensible) is good or right in any sense beyond just servings its own aims.
My false selves would be represented by the obsessions of the Guardians who are try to provoke their children to "identify (but not accept") the Shadows of their archetypes. The Denizens are the Anima/Animus. SKAIA is ultimately just trying to force the maturation process of the ego- and that's a bad thing. Children should be allowed to grow on their own with a genocidal videogame and not to allow their personas to be met with the grandiose expectations of mythologization.
>>177>Kind of like if you actually had the building blocks of "aspect"? Like grist???In part, yes. Grist transferal and immutability should have been a far bigger part of the game and the comic.
>What do you suggest I read? Just so I have something to read while on break @ my jobLiterally just pic related.
I have read a decently comprehensive book that was an overview on ego defense mechanisms, analyzing different models and frameworks regarding them post-Freud. I do mention more specific stuff in my "Rose is A WoS" document because it was fresher in my head then but ultimately, a tentatively academic grasp on ego defense mechanisms isn't really required to understand my ideal version of Homestuck or to make it work barring maybe one big example because there is a lot of thematic weight and potential overlap with other "cool symbolic things" to tie into.
No.180
>>179I'll just call each of your responses by paragraphs instead of quoting it entirely just to save space
>p1I do apologize if I used terms incorrectly since I'm more in the study of engineering so I'm not too familiar or too like academically adept to Jung, as I mentioned before, whole deal with me just reading little by little, so maybe it will eventually evolve into a fuller more comprehensive idea.
>p2 Is that not what almost all the kids go through though? At least most alternative timelines seem to fail to distinguish the ego eventually? Again, John being indirectly killed by Terezi, Alternate Timeline Daves…
>p3as an fyi i don't consider the epilogues canon and I just don't bother with them, I genuinely will just not consider them canon lol
returning back to what you were saying however, I wouldn't say SKAIA is a good or bad force, it's just a force that exerts pressure to serve its interest ambiguously, some may view it as good, others may view it as bad, it's viewed favorably by some and vice versa for others – when it comes to enforcing the pattern of behavior, it is just molding the characters into the class they were supposed to be, kind of like a combination of all their habits into a specific class.
My best example for this would be Eridan, where he spent most of his time in the game session killing angels, thus, filling the vessel of the prince using his soul and reinforcing his own will with the will of SKAIA, his ideology went unchallenged ""in the game session"" because that's what he was always meant to do, he never was meant to be a snooty or passive person like kanaya or tavros respectively
mainly the idea is that SKAIA is just neutral and allowing people to become the truest version of themselves
truest version of themselves -> combination of all habits
if someone is hateful, when they enter sburb, they will amplify that hatred and eventually become a bard through eventuality for example, or if someone's very passionate they would become a heir. Of course, i'm super simplifying here but I hope you understand my gist of what i'm going for here
>p4I would argue against the idea that guardians are the shadows as that's more externally true than internally true, i would consider the sprites to be a better representation because they hold a sort of intent that the kids wish to achieve (and eventually become)
ie. Nannasprite being carefree, john following in her footsteps
davesprite going through the process of understanding and pushing his alpha self to do his best,
Jadesprite basically being what
GREEN could never properly express
Rose wishing to be as knowledeagble and mysterious like Jaspersprite…
Like, they're all inherently "taboo"* to the kids, whether it is to show extreme emotion, to be free from shame being shameless or just being overly knowledgeable and intentionally hiding the information
* (not in a fetish taboo but as in societal taboos that wouldn't be done with strangers, per se because the sprites are inherently, strangers to the kids)
for the other two archetypes however, I'd need to think about it further because I honestly think the denizens are just another component of Skaia, but not really representing anything beyond that since they're just a game asset. Again, component of Skaia.
>Children should be allowed to grow on their own with a genocidal videogame and not to allow their personas to be met with the grandiose expectations of mythologization. This is true, but Skaia does not discriminate. We do get an implication that older people also had entered the game, which would in turn make the process of mythologization a bit easier, but we were left with 13 year olds instead lol
>Grist transferal and immutability should have been a far bigger part of the game and the comic.To be fair the fandom did dig their own grave by wishing more character interactions, Andrew is well known for kneeling down to whoever is the strongest, he serves for others after all, even with Psycholonials he kneeled for the fandom to pay attention to him and fed into their delusions, especially in later chapters lmfao
if only the fandom were more long-term thinking…
>ego defense mechanisms, analyzing different models and frameworks regarding them post-Freud.Hmm. Maybe the more I read the more i'll eventually cascade into the same conclusion. I dunno though
No.181
>>179
btw sorry for not mentioning it before, thanks for the book
No.182
>>180>At least most alternative timelines seem to fail to distinguish the ego eventually?Davesprite can be considered a less egocentric version of Dave though that's splitting hairs. Ego death seems more incidental to the fact that you realize that you're fucking doomed and that's seen a couple of times (Vrissy and the cannon fodder Ghost Army come to mind.) I don't think this holds much weight as a theory.
If we're talking ideals, then why is this your ideal Homestuck?
>as an fyi i don't consider the epilogues canon >>134and I just don't bother with them, I genuinely will just not consider them canon lol
Ultimate Selves as a concept are still more or less in Act 6 Act 6 Act 6.
>mainly the idea is that SKAIA is just neutral and allowing people to become the truest version of themselvesNot a fan.
>ie. Nannasprite being carefree, john following in her footstepsThe Sprites are not the Guardians and I don't think the Sprites would be a good analog for Shadows because they are of the Kids' creation. They are anything unconscious extensions of them which should be what SBurb should be about (Synchronicity would be the previous session affecting the unpredictability within alchemy and enantiodromia being prototyping affecting the enemies)
>Jadesprite basically being what GREEN could never properly expressJadesprite is a literal "shadow" of
GREEN in that she only had a fraction of experiences that the real
GREEN had and was thus less developed as person. Relating that to a Jungian Shadow is kind of dumb, yes, there is ultimately a part of Jadesprite that is in
GREEN that she wouldn't want to admit but that's because of mitigating circumstances (which is not how this should work- it should be strongly metaphorically rooted and then take on additional layers. Classic psychology, especially Jungian, is very essentialist- the Shadows should exist before the Kids enter the game and be represented beforehand and be more metaphorical.)
>Rose wishing to be as knowledeagble Applies to all Sprites.
>for the other two archetypes however, I'd need to think about it further because I honestly think the denizens are just another component of Skaia, but not really representing anything beyond that since they're just a game asset. Again, component of Skaia.It'd be more metaphorical in my version. I gave all the Kids' Gods of the opposite sex; there are ways we can represent the absence of parental figures and how that affect their psychosexual relationships without the mechanics being straight analogs (the point being that it's more analogous to alchemical processes which have psychological associations.)
>This is true, but Skaia does not discriminate. We do get an implication that older people also had entered the game, which would in turn make the process of mythologization a bit easier, but we were left with 13 year olds instead lol"This is an example of Hu¢¢ie dropping ideas for haha silly self-indulgence."
>Hmm. Maybe the more I read the more i'll eventually cascade into the same conclusion. II'd have to find the specific book but obviously Freud and Jung do "click"; it's just not essential to the vision.
Not proof-reading this. Don't particularly care for this post.
No.183
>>182>If we're talking ideals, then why is this your ideal Homestuck?I can tell you why this is my ideal Homestuck. I like these themes, topics and the idea of "belief changing reality"" as a trope in fiction. A lot of this stems from my disappointment in Homestuck being the webcomic about "A story about a world-creating videogame using alchemy" (
"A creation mythos with a lot of time travel") and simultaneously, my disappointment with Persona (past 2) as a series (and to a lesser extent Megaten as a whole) so I get to play with these themes and jargon with the level of respect and importance I think they deserve.
No.184
>>179*infantile megalomania
Slit wrists, immediately.
No.186
>>185This ties into something I alluded to earlier- that some user requests were plants to make it seem like Hu¢¢ie was responding to feedback when he was just going with an existing plan. For example, I think most if not all of the original troll names were like this.
It's important to remember that Hu¢¢ie went into Homestuck with an existing fanbase. When he said that "usually user suggestions just happen to line up with what he's thinking", I think he's stretching the truth (lying) in two different ways. First, like I said he can just follow up on a short-term plan and people will go "wow such a great improviser" and second, he can stop in his tracks and shift, and change plans because of something someone said (it's very likely it's the same group people with this kind of sway.) In that way, I think we got the worst of both worlds.
No.187
>>186Eeh, I say it was just outsourced thinking/planning to a devoted userbase more than backroom puppet-mastery. All of those MSPAF threads are likely wiped from existence by now, but he must've had tens if not hundreds of suggestions to pick through.
It's like throwing ideas at GPT today, for us nobodies.
No.188
>>186The names Hu¢¢ie chose were all similar somehow to his planned names. Jack became John, Violet became Rose (a flower, and the name of a Roald Dahl character with a French surname), Dan became Dave (and not Chad), and Green became Ja
de (a green mineral also known as greenstone)
No.189
>>187> All of those MSPAF threads are likely wiped from existence by now, but he must've had tens if not hundreds of suggestions to pick through. "And for a reason."
>I say it was just outsourced thinking/planning to a devoted userbase more than backroom puppet-masteryIt was very likely half-and-half.
>>188John (PROTAGONIST MAN NAME), Rose (probably a purple prose joke), and Dave (partially a Ninja Gaiden reference) are incidental. It all comes back to
GREEN though; she's when the bullshit of the comic starts.
I had a "revelation" after my days of "reading a little bit but I feel too tired to do much of anything right now.
No.218
>Lacan's "sinthome" concept, which involves confronting one's inherent lack and constructing meaning is generally the goal act of his psychoanalysis. To be content in privation and not really having a place for your ideas or personal meanings and wants and knowing society will never provide it. Getting there in sessions and analysis is a very difficult and time consuming sort of processWhat's fucked is I think Hu¢¢ie started out that way
>Bowman was talking about the old forum times where he'd get into arguements with himAbout wanting a wiki (Bowman whined about a wikipedia page or something?) and interviews and for Homestuck to be more 'Official'
>Where Hu¢¢ie basically told him to eat shit and that quote"Homestuck is not that kind of project."
"I'm afraid of commitment." - le me.
>More like "I need to be Indie so bad that I will murder this project if it ever goes mainstream"He never evolved from hipster-ass Dave. - le me.
>Basically. No.219
>>218Ah, I fucked up the meme Doritos, but whatever.
It's an important factoid from #deeplore friend.
No.221
>>109I've deliberated on giving this a proper response for far too long.
I originally had a much longer post in response to this but I'll keep this very simple.
Homestuck was always about overlapping rulesets and trying to find loopholes by criss-crossing them. The characters' interests intersect with certain rulesets and those interests (which are sometimes intellectual or philosophical theories) and intellectual and philosophical theories have symbolic value beyond just being frameworks because the comic is about symbols themselves. At the end of the day, Homestuck is time-travel and alchemy in a videogame; it needs rules and there are rules out there that fit its needs as a story thematically and functionally.
Fuck you.
No.222
This is the other post I put off for far too long. Nobody really cares about what I have to say, Solluxchud is like 10% of the site userbase and 30% of this board specifically so his explicit disapproval is demoralizing, and I don't exactly have anyone that can help so I'm not exactly dedicated to the /hhg/ grind.
Sometimes I wonder how much of Hu¢¢ie's bullshit was mindless self indulgence and ineptitude and how much was "getting lost in the sauce" of hazy recollections of poststructuralism, deconstruction, and postmodernism- understandings of these ideas, blurry as they might be, still more cogent and nuanced than any resident Wikipedia intellectual Hu¢¢ie defender's conceptualizations. This varies from like 40-to-60 on either end.
That being said, Hu¢¢ie doing a shitty job at intellectualizing his comics with vague concepts from movements I have contempt for may explain why everything is convoluted and attempting to analyze it is infuriating. It does not explain why Homestuck is so fucking boring. In all the above schools of thought, having fun is basically praxis. And no one was having fun by the end of Homestuck, least of all the creator- most damningly, by his own admission.
I don't think Hu¢¢ie was very flipping through textbooks; what he seemed to have a grasp of was philosophy 101 prereq stuff. "Everything is a symbol of a symbol, fuck grand narratives, here's a grand narrative about how topos hyperboros does actually lead to the truth in God except he's a giant skeleton that wants to kill you" is not that complex. I'm not even saying it's even gnostic despite the often-made superficial comparison.
It's more just typical JRPG shenanigans and "Yeah, maybe, he had some friends feeding him some basic college goodness.” And, even still, every time I think of a way to frame Homestuck as shitting on essentialism, I remember the last minute inclusion of Ultimate Selves to force a sort of quasi-aporia like it needs to do a postmodern checklist. "Nothing matters, everything is arbitrary, but also, ultimately, you are still universally yourself."
The working theory was that he was at a fork in the road with Plato and Jung and instead of making an executive decision, he just crumpled in on himself with the greatest intellectualization for noncommittal possible.
No.223
>>221I would like to approach this from an angle of Lacan to propose this conception of 'Rules and structure' is a Jungian trap that Hu¢¢ie is grillng. He embodies the Name of the Father in the work via this, but ultimately the comic works to trounce this rather than reinforce it in retrospective. The comic brings to mind old point and click Adventure games which do thrive off those rules and Hu¢¢ie makes a point to deconstruct and interrogate them.
However, I also argue this is a negative for Hu¢¢ie's personal development as an author and artist and symptomatic of his own failings and irresponsibility. The opposite of games like Earthbound that culminate in a healthy respect for the Paternal Metaphor concept. It's a moral failing of Homestuck to make this artistic choice. It's steeped in the deep cynicism and negativity of the author's outlook and has lead inversely to anything constructive in what it's teaching.
No.224
>>221>overlapping rulesets>comic is about symbols themselves>time-travel "An elaborate creation mythos involving lots of time travel.">>223>this conception of 'Rules and structure' is a Jungian trap that Hu¢¢ie is grillng. Possibly, my theory (or reconstruction if that makes the skeptic feel more comfortable) was about how the game was forcing the kids too quickly and too tightly into their Jungian Personas but that was (mostly) dropped pretty quickly.
I think a bigger factor is that this is just a slightly more heady version of what he finds funny. Imposing arbitrary rules on the reader inputs and seeing how they get around it. Except he would write more of it this time, and with more defined characters.
But I think there's a big hole in your theory about Hu¢¢ie being that focused on deconstructing one (1) guy. He made his strawman, Rose, a Freud fangirl. Even her cat is named after Jaspers, not Jung. I feel like if this was his direct thought process, he would have gone straight for the throat. He's not one for subtlety when it comes to things like this.
No.225
>>223For simplicity sake, The Name of the Father is a lacanian dogma that relates to Castration. Castration is an element of pseudo bio-mythistication that entails the separating of the subject from instinct and the replacement of Language, i.e. social bond to signal reification/solidarity and control drives. This is said to happen developmentally when a secondary parent comes between the first parent and the child, i.e. denying them their primary demands and inducing the way for desire, which is what the Name of the Father embodies in a mutual linguistic way.
Let's take the elements early in the comic that he has the kids devote to and share: Squiddles, Con Air and 90s cinema, furries and Rap battles. Fairly basic things that children share! One of the earliest way kids learn to perform the Name of the Father is with toys and imaginative hobbies. These introductions are pitched as creative and constructive aspects in their Jungian alchemy (Lacan might call it symbolic space but we'll digress).
Take John's literal dad and his baking. How does does the movie convey his dad loves him? By shoving cakes in his face and baking them for him. A strange, but abstracted and very straightforward paternal sigil.
These devolve into a punchline later on in the comic, and are heavily treated as either laudable and worthy of mockery at best, or malicious and stunted at growth. The problem is that Hu¢¢ie does not offer any sort of aspect of the Fatherhood metaphor in place: Everything that we spend time with our protagonist bonding them together as awkward, nerdy kids and connecting them as characters is deconstructed and treated as destructive, damaging or weird and creepy.
Take Hu¢¢ie's usage of Yiffy. Furries in the real world are a fandom that, despite its many perceived creepy and disgusting facets that often make it a taboo in pop culture (fursona is literally slang for fucking), are a group of people that band together around a concept of the Father Name. Hu¢¢ie ruthlessly mocks this with the naming of the character, and anything else that serves as a symbolized bond in language is seen through a lens of religion, irony or parody, disgust and cynicism.
>>224I think that would've been a very clever lesson (Growing up too quickly), but the comic goes in the opposite direction. More in the way of "Literally any kind of growing up or struggling together and finding shared challenges is maladaptive, deceitful and a lie that Sburb/Society forces upon you that you should resist at all cost."
He doesn't just break rules for the sake of it in his comic or patterns, half the time it's really just pettymoves to get back at readers for expecting a certain thing or believing any cohesion could help readers identify with his comic. And given this constant fight against identification, coincidentally also a big lacanian Sintomatic thing, he veers on the psychotic as far as structure goes. Any sort of growing milestones or rituals are painted with negativity, bonding with suspicion, to where even something as innocent as a Birthday is the ultimate omen of caprice.
> He made his strawman, Rose, a Freud fangirlAt the beginning yeah, but by the ending contrary to what you may think he lampoons and tears that away from Rose by the end and throws it 'in the bad' with the other supposed-childish hobbies and interests that he regards as risible.
It's possible he had a straightforward structuralist narrative in mind and grew to subvert it out of bitterness by the end, but his deconstruction completely undermines Homestuck entirely into an anti-social farce.
No.226
>>225I do think there are a few positive showings of 'Adulthood' and growth that he portrays, but they are instantly recognizable as refusals of instinct/drive and not desire, i.e. without a pure social component but singular self improvement.
Criticism against Drugs, religious fundamentalism, intoxication. This is not really a prompted response for social cohesion or the Paternal Metaphor's link- It's perfectly normal to teach a dog or some pet this, as far as self-control. But it has nothing to do with desire or their notions of love/death as far as the bifurcation of the unconscious goes.
No.227
>>225Think of films from the 80/90's, where the Name of the Father concept is always embodied by characters that help the protagonist grow up as social substance: ET, the Terminator, talking dogs, Falkor. It's not hard to understand how this furthers the idea of children understanding relationship by a shared meaning, something beyond any intrinsic human-independent domain. It would've been easy to use this in many places: The trolls, the guardians, the planet inhabitants and reptiles, even the basic exiles and friends.
Basically I'm saying if ET was in Homestuck, Hu¢¢ie would've had the kids shoot him in the face by Act 6 and celebrate with some bizarre and cynical message that 'Stuff like this is holding you back and what sburb WANTS and the only way forward is to literally throw Falkor into a woodchipper so you can be an irony-poisoned asshole rather than a scared little
8ITCH that needs rituals or any talismans to express meaning with the Other.'
No.228
>>225>I think that would've been a very clever lesson (Growing up too quickly)Yeah, if you read my posts here, that's one of my most central themes posited.
>At the beginning yeah, but by the ending contrary to what you may think he lampoons and tears that away from Rose by the end and throws it 'in the bad' with the other supposed-childish hobbies and interests that he regards as risible.Actually, he kind of does the opposite and vindicates Rose by making her right about all baseless conjecture regarding Dave- which, as I've said before, was likely done just to prop up (and perhaps unintentionally Flanderize) Dave as a comedic prop.
But, yes, any hobby that Hu¢¢ie doesn't engage in himself (which is basically anything besides playing videogames and doing le ironies) is treated with some level of derision. I disagree; I think that's basically a thing straight from the offset because Hu¢¢ie is an asshole.
>It's possible he had a straightforward structuralist narrative in mind and grew to subvert it out of bitterness by the end, but his deconstruction completely undermines Homestuck entirely into an anti-social farce."Yeah, we know."
I'm glad you're finally posting here and maybe you need to get this out into the air but I'd rather this thread be "Huh, looks like that was a dropped plot point" and "Here's where Hu¢¢ie got this idea" and "Here's where Hu¢¢ie changed plans" and all my reconstructionism ideas as opposed to the same tepid "Homestuck is a blackhole of joy" soliloquies we tend to go on.
No.230
>>228I think as far as Dave that's just his way of having his cake and eating it too. Saying that his weird incestuous obsession (def not one of Hu¢¢ie's obsessions) is so clearly obvious that even if Psychoanalysis and Freud is so clearly obviously wrong that we can see it for ourselves and don't need cocaine using beardies to tell us that.
>I'm glad you're finally posting here and maybe you need to get this out into the air but I'd rather this thread be "Huh, looks like that was a dropped plot point" and "Here's where Hu¢¢ie got this idea" and "Here's where Hu¢¢ie changed plans" and all my reconstructionism ideas as opposed to the same tepid "Homestuck is a blackhole of joy"I don't know if this aspect was a late addition or not, but I'm saying either way it seems like Hu¢¢ie either changed his mind on the Jungian Rules and structure you spoke about or always intended to refute it rather than push it genuinely.
I might want to try to organize my media theories on here. If I can workup the care and my usual fatigue to post them in an imageboard format.
No.231
>>230>Hu¢¢ie either changed his mind on the Jungian Rules and structure you spoke about or always intended to refute it rather than push it genuinely.Again, I think the original M.O was that Jung was mostly valid, it's just that it's this God machine (something inhuman; the digital age) forcing the natural process to progress too quickly.
As a matter of fact, that might be where the latent cancer symbolism came from since we know Hu¢¢ie intended to do the trolls as a separate comic before he hit his head, and we can reasonably assume that they were always intended to have created the Kids' universe. Karkat's handle would have broader symbolic relevance than the really forced layers of bullshit culpability we have to go through to make Karkat technically (partially) responsible for Bec Noir.
No.233
Also, this goes in line with what we were talking about Homestuck before but I really think people undermine Dave's shirt getting cut as a character moment for Dave.
At most you get that Dave learns Bro isn't so great but that's not what it's fucking about. Dave had already that moment when he sliced up Bro's puppets. Dave's arc is not about Bro, it's about more than just Bro. All of the Kids' arcs were (or should have been) like that. Dave's shirt getting cut by Bro should have some pretty obvious symbolism to it- it's about Dave giving up on the irony shit all together, and learning that this recursive ironic bullshit is self-indulgent and that it's better to just embrace things you genuinely enjoy. "The record stops repeating because it's scratched."
But, I think, I had an epiphany that Hu¢¢ie had no idea how to write Dave post-"ironyman" stage and that's why Act 3 is the split in the comic. Hu¢¢ie couldn't conceive of a Dave that isn't ironic in the way he could conceive of a less guarded John or Rose because Hu¢¢ie couldn't conceive of a version of himself that was less ironic.
Everyone agrees about the mini arcs with John learning that Dad is just a guy (and thus is completely sincere with him) and Rose "learns to put trust in a friend" (quote from Hu¢¢ie himself)- and these are things that we more or less go back on, at least, especially, with Rose- but nobody acknowledges Dave's micro arc.
Because you can't recognize it as an arc under the premise of Homestuck actually fucking working because "we go back on it" and it's the only one of the Kid's arcs that sort of vaguely lingers as an afterthought through the entire comic where Dave finally has a sit-down that maybe Bro isn't so great at the very end of Act 6 (whereas Rose just doesn't learn her lesson symbolically and only "gets it" once Mom gets axed- which is of course, just sloppy writing- and then copes with the fact that she was being sincere by doing retarded shit. If Dave's arc was repeated then Rose's arc was just slowed down for no real reason and then shoved in her face out of spite by the writer for nebulous reasons. And then by the end of the comic, does Rose really trust people any more? Do we get some big moment showcasing that? Not really. Dave gets his big symbolic fuck-off to Bro in Collide since that's what his arc was really about; "Fuck Bro", not distancing himself from his ironic persona in any way) even though we already got that point and symbolically got something even deeper than that.
Once again, I can't iterate enough how much of Homestuck was ruined just directly ruined because of Dave.
No.234
>>233>Once again, I can't iterate enough how much of Homestuck was just directly ruined because of Dave.Slight typo. Double ruined.
No.235
I wonder if stuff like John liking magic tricks or Rose being a goth that lives in a lavish mansion were just things ripped directly from the original Sims. Not that we can really prove it or not or that it matters all that much. But again, another thing that points to things starting to fall apart when Dave got introduced because Hu¢¢ie's hand started to stray from his primal inspirations.
No.236
>>235Reminder that one of the default Sims in The Sims 3 STRONGLY resembles Rose, Rose Lalonde.
No.237
A lot of stuff seems to me lifted from The Sims 3, actually. Like the generic object cube, and the grumpy moodlet icon being used as Karkat's face.
No.238
>>236>>237girlbait strikes again!
No.240
>>237>Like the generic object cube,Oh, how I hate it. But presumably, Hu¢¢ie only played the original and has his cohorts of Hu¢¢ies inform about the shit in the later games. That's his typical M.O.
No.241
"Also, this reminds me of Hu¢¢ie's tard式神 manifesto against presumably, Maddox, and the deep evil unfunniness of pirates, and ninjas, and calling things gay.
Just realized that Dave is a ninja and Vriska and Eridan are pirates solely for this reason."
No.242
>>241Also, while writhing in insomnia, (I think I've said this before) I had the broad idea that I think that Hu¢¢ie was making fun of the prevalence of mutants in the Marvel Universe because of X-Men by making virtually every troll a mutant and basing most of them (especially the earlier ones) on X-Men but I think, meta jokes, especially the ones in Homestuck, are basically jokes that are half-finished.
Like, I can't believe I'm saying this but you really needed someone like John to lampshade it by directly pointing it out in a silly way or you get no catharsis from recognizing it; it's not humor, it's just a fucking thing. Usually I would say that's "lowbrow" humor but it doesn't go far enough to be satirical so yes, it's just unfinished lowbrow humor. Make an actual joke instead of making a vaguely amusing parallel and making it SUPER SECRET, you fucking hackfraud.
No.244
>>242>woah, so you guys are like… the x-men! you guys are exactly like the x-men!>WHAT. NO. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.would it have been kino?
No.245
I feel like people would be way more interested in this concept if you gave it a simpler name, like a deconstruction of Homestuck and where it could have gone before Hu¢¢ie crashed out.
It just gets flak because most people on the internet are just here to fuck around and socialize, rather than decipher all of that.
No.246
>>244No, it's not like that. That seems intentionally poorly written.
It's more like (I'm not the best at this so give me a breal);
theres one guy thats super strong and multiple of you guys are psychic and even terezi can like lick her screen is that a mutation?NO.
I MEAN, PROBABLY NOT, I NEVER CARED TO FUCKING ASK. THAT'S KIND OF A SHITTY QUESTION. NOT EXACTLY A GOOD ICEBREAKER AND AS AN INLET TO ANY ACTUAL CONVERSATION, SHE'D JUST USE TO GO FULL-FORCE INTO HER USUAL WEIRD SHIT
SO FUCK OFF. WHAT'S YOUR POINT?i just have to wonder like you know how mutations work right?what the hell is the cancer rate in your society? can your health care even cover all that?whatever its just like xmen at this point theres so many mutants that not being a mutant is weird and you start to wonder why magneto hasnt just won yet due to sheer numberswhich i guess applies to you guys tooOUR GOVERNMENT USES GIANT ROBOTS TO CULL US.yeah thats xmen toobut im still not buying itARE YOU SAYING MY SPECIES' ACTUAL REALITY IS BULLSHIT?basicallyyea No.250
>>247Final proof you don't need the tags every line break.
No.251
>>250I'll kill you.
No.252
>>251Adjusted the formatting 4u
No.253
>>223For a Virgo, Hu¢¢ie doesn't actually have (or display, let's say) much respect for anything.
No.254
>>253"Like all good comedians."
No.255
>>248The first two-thirds of this thread. The heuristics guy.
No.256
>>255>The heuristics guy."Hermeneutics."
The point is to differentiate it from other things in the fandom. There are a lot of "deconstructions of Homestuck" that are myopic, self-indulgent pieces of shit that don't contextualize anything and jerk the comic off to the stars.
"Hermenutics" implies we're taking a good look at the author to try and understand the direction the comic took at each stage. Which most things revolving Homestuck just fucking don't because they assume Hu¢¢ie has some master thesis he's working towards- which is, of course, dumb because the comic was strongly
BIZNASTY in the interplay between the fandom and the creator. Originally, it was through direct inputs and eventually it devolved into the pretentious cat-and-mouse game of pandering, subversion, and encryption to irritate or sate every disparate part of the fandom in alternating phases.
I've called it a "deconstruction" and "reconstruction" in this very thread. I just think people underestimate how many cooks there were in the broth with Homestuck and assume Hu¢¢ie was an infinite well of ideas (no matter how bad they may have been) and divine inspiration.
Also, personally, I just think calling something something "Homestuck Hermenutics" is funny because it asserts a level of prestige to Homestuck which, evidently, it doesn't fucking have- despite some of the fandom's protests. I hate basically 80% of this fucking thing and genuinely believe it to be something of objectively zero artistic merit at the end of the day.
No.257
Also, Homestuck sucks because Bro (especially), Dave, or Dirk never throw their sunglasses like shurikens like Wesker.
What the FUCK was Hu¢¢ie's problem?
No.258
What the fuck was up with god tiers representing maturity and the end of the coming-of-age story while simultaneously being extremely childish (colorful pajamas, the "kiddie camper handysash", etc)
No.259
>>258In a way that slims the jargon down a bit, the synthesis of the ideal self (dreaming) and the actual self (waking) would be some kind of (Jungian) archetypal hero; this is basically just a hyperbolic version of what kids do with their existing personas though immaturely grandiose- this is part of why SBurb is meant to evil.
It should be noted that the most powerful class in the game is given to the most immature character who is literally developmentally and physically/sexually retarded. If Caliborn was human, he'd be a Downie whose brain couldn't past that of an eleven year old's and then he'd turn into a roid monster and start punching and shooting lasers everywhere.
No.260
>>259(I tried to look up another mental impairment associated more with anger issues- because I remember there being one like that- because Down's syndrome is correlated with very high agreeability which doesn't fit Caliborn at all but whatever, everyone gets the point when you just say "Downie"…)
No.261
>>259I doubt sburb is meant to be evil, it's just horrifically incompetent for some reason (the reason is Hu¢¢ie's incompetence)
No.263
Also "over a century or more" is fucking nothing to an immortal Lord Of Time.
No.264
>>261>I doubt sburb is meant to be evil,Here I would use "was." And I think it'd be a significantly better story if it "was evil." You're free to disagree with that but I have a lot of reasons and a lot of ideas about the (potential) story that connect to that.
>>262A big part of SBurb is that it supports brute force over guile which is why Caliborn just coincidentally (as coincidental as predestination can be) enters into Godhood through sheer will to power. This is part of why SBurb is a shit because the one guy who gets the mandate to become God is a tepid excuse for a villain that goes "HNRRGGGHHHH ME HORNY, KILL MY FUCKING SISTER" like that's the only part of the prophecy about his defeat. It's also a key reason why Act 6 is shit.
Your villain is a moronic force of nature and yet nobody even outwits him, they just do exactly what he knows is going to happen.
No.265
I'm honestly surprised that Homestuck never capitalized on a Sburb-themed chess set.
Then again, I suppose it wouldn't be fun if the second player is destined to win without exception.
No.266
>>265>Then again, I suppose it wouldn't be fun if the second player is destined to win without exception.You don't need to play by that rule, silly.