No.182
>>180>At least most alternative timelines seem to fail to distinguish the ego eventually?Davesprite can be considered a less egocentric version of Dave though that's splitting hairs. Ego death seems more incidental to the fact that you realize that you're fucking doomed and that's seen a couple of times (Vrissy and the cannon fodder Ghost Army come to mind.) I don't think this holds much weight as a theory.
If we're talking ideals, then why is this your ideal Homestuck?
>as an fyi i don't consider the epilogues canon >>134and I just don't bother with them, I genuinely will just not consider them canon lol
Ultimate Selves as a concept are still more or less in Act 6 Act 6 Act 6.
>mainly the idea is that SKAIA is just neutral and allowing people to become the truest version of themselvesNot a fan.
>ie. Nannasprite being carefree, john following in her footstepsThe Sprites are not the Guardians and I don't think the Sprites would be a good analog for Shadows because they are of the Kids' creation. They are anything unconscious extensions of them which should be what SBurb should be about (Synchronicity would be the previous session affecting the unpredictability within alchemy and enantiodromia being prototyping affecting the enemies)
>Jadesprite basically being what GREEN could never properly expressJadesprite is a literal "shadow" of
GREEN in that she only had a fraction of experiences that the real
GREEN had and was thus less developed as person. Relating that to a Jungian Shadow is kind of dumb, yes, there is ultimately a part of Jadesprite that is in
GREEN that she wouldn't want to admit but that's because of mitigating circumstances (which is not how this should work- it should be strongly metaphorically rooted and then take on additional layers. Classic psychology, especially Jungian, is very essentialist- the Shadows should exist before the Kids enter the game and be represented beforehand and be more metaphorical.)
>Rose wishing to be as knowledeagble Applies to all Sprites.
>for the other two archetypes however, I'd need to think about it further because I honestly think the denizens are just another component of Skaia, but not really representing anything beyond that since they're just a game asset. Again, component of Skaia.It'd be more metaphorical in my version. I gave all the Kids' Gods of the opposite sex; there are ways we can represent the absence of parental figures and how that affect their psychosexual relationships without the mechanics being straight analogs (the point being that it's more analogous to alchemical processes which have psychological associations.)
>This is true, but Skaia does not discriminate. We do get an implication that older people also had entered the game, which would in turn make the process of mythologization a bit easier, but we were left with 13 year olds instead lol"This is an example of Hu¢¢ie dropping ideas for haha silly self-indulgence."
>Hmm. Maybe the more I read the more i'll eventually cascade into the same conclusion. II'd have to find the specific book but obviously Freud and Jung do "click"; it's just not essential to the vision.
Not proof-reading this. Don't particularly care for this post.
No.183
>>182>If we're talking ideals, then why is this your ideal Homestuck?I can tell you why this is my ideal Homestuck. I like these themes, topics and the idea of "belief changing reality"" as a trope in fiction. A lot of this stems from my disappointment in Homestuck being the webcomic about "A story about a world-creating videogame using alchemy" (
"A creation mythos with a lot of time travel") and simultaneously, my disappointment with Persona (past 2) as a series (and to a lesser extent Megaten as a whole) so I get to play with these themes and jargon with the level of respect and importance I think they deserve.
No.184
>>179*infantile megalomania
Slit wrists, immediately.
No.186
>>185This ties into something I alluded to earlier- that some user requests were plants to make it seem like Hu¢¢ie was responding to feedback when he was just going with an existing plan. For example, I think most if not all of the original troll names were like this.
It's important to remember that Hu¢¢ie went into Homestuck with an existing fanbase. When he said that "usually user suggestions just happen to line up with what he's thinking", I think he's stretching the truth (lying) in two different ways. First, like I said he can just follow up on a short-term plan and people will go "wow such a great improviser" and second, he can stop in his tracks and shift, and change plans because of something someone said (it's very likely it's the same group people with this kind of sway.) In that way, I think we got the worst of both worlds.
No.187
>>186Eeh, I say it was just outsourced thinking/planning to a devoted userbase more than backroom puppet-mastery. All of those MSPAF threads are likely wiped from existence by now, but he must've had tens if not hundreds of suggestions to pick through.
It's like throwing ideas at GPT today, for us nobodies.
No.188
>>186The names Hu¢¢ie chose were all similar somehow to his planned names. Jack became John, Violet became Rose (a flower, and the name of a Roald Dahl character with a French surname), Dan became Dave (and not Chad), and Green became Ja
de (a green mineral also known as greenstone)
No.189
>>187> All of those MSPAF threads are likely wiped from existence by now, but he must've had tens if not hundreds of suggestions to pick through. "And for a reason."
>I say it was just outsourced thinking/planning to a devoted userbase more than backroom puppet-masteryIt was very likely half-and-half.
>>188John (PROTAGONIST MAN NAME), Rose (probably a purple prose joke), and Dave (partially a Ninja Gaiden reference) are incidental. It all comes back to
GREEN though; she's when the bullshit of the comic starts.
I had a "revelation" after my days of "reading a little bit but I feel too tired to do much of anything right now.
No.218
>Lacan's "sinthome" concept, which involves confronting one's inherent lack and constructing meaning is generally the goal act of his psychoanalysis. To be content in privation and not really having a place for your ideas or personal meanings and wants and knowing society will never provide it. Getting there in sessions and analysis is a very difficult and time consuming sort of processWhat's fucked is I think Hu¢¢ie started out that way
>Bowman was talking about the old forum times where he'd get into arguements with himAbout wanting a wiki (Bowman whined about a wikipedia page or something?) and interviews and for Homestuck to be more 'Official'
>Where Hu¢¢ie basically told him to eat shit and that quote"Homestuck is not that kind of project."
"I'm afraid of commitment." - le me.
>More like "I need to be Indie so bad that I will murder this project if it ever goes mainstream"He never evolved from hipster-ass Dave. - le me.
>Basically.
No.219
>>218Ah, I fucked up the meme Doritos, but whatever.
It's an important factoid from #deeplore friend.
No.221
>>109I've deliberated on giving this a proper response for far too long.
I originally had a much longer post in response to this but I'll keep this very simple.
Homestuck was always about overlapping rulesets and trying to find loopholes by criss-crossing them. The characters' interests intersect with certain rulesets and those interests (which are sometimes intellectual or philosophical theories) and intellectual and philosophical theories have symbolic value beyond just being frameworks because the comic is about symbols themselves. At the end of the day, Homestuck is time-travel and alchemy in a videogame; it needs rules and there are rules out there that fit its needs as a story thematically and functionally.
Fuck you.
No.222
This is the other post I put off for far too long. Nobody really cares about what I have to say, Solluxchud is like 10% of the site userbase and 30% of this board specifically so his explicit disapproval is demoralizing, and I don't exactly have anyone that can help so I'm not exactly dedicated to the /hhg/ grind.
Sometimes I wonder how much of Hu¢¢ie's bullshit was mindless self indulgence and ineptitude and how much was "getting lost in the sauce" of hazy recollections of poststructuralism, deconstruction, and postmodernism- understandings of these ideas, blurry as they might be, still more cogent and nuanced than any resident Wikipedia intellectual Hu¢¢ie defender's conceptualizations. This varies from like 40-to-60 on either end.
That being said, Hu¢¢ie doing a shitty job at intellectualizing his comics with vague concepts from movements I have contempt for may explain why everything is convoluted and attempting to analyze it is infuriating. It does not explain why Homestuck is so fucking boring. In all the above schools of thought, having fun is basically praxis. And no one was having fun by the end of Homestuck, least of all the creator- most damningly, by his own admission.
I don't think Hu¢¢ie was very flipping through textbooks; what he seemed to have a grasp of was philosophy 101 prereq stuff. "Everything is a symbol of a symbol, fuck grand narratives, here's a grand narrative about how topos hyperboros does actually lead to the truth in God except he's a giant skeleton that wants to kill you" is not that complex. I'm not even saying it's even gnostic despite the often-made superficial comparison.
It's more just typical JRPG shenanigans and "Yeah, maybe, he had some friends feeding him some basic college goodness.” And, even still, every time I think of a way to frame Homestuck as shitting on essentialism, I remember the last minute inclusion of Ultimate Selves to force a sort of quasi-aporia like it needs to do a postmodern checklist. "Nothing matters, everything is arbitrary, but also, ultimately, you are still universally yourself."
The working theory was that he was at a fork in the road with Plato and Jung and instead of making an executive decision, he just crumpled in on himself with the greatest intellectualization for noncommittal possible.
No.223
>>221I would like to approach this from an angle of Lacan to propose this conception of 'Rules and structure' is a Jungian trap that Hu¢¢ie is grillng. He embodies the Name of the Father in the work via this, but ultimately the comic works to trounce this rather than reinforce it in retrospective. The comic brings to mind old point and click Adventure games which do thrive off those rules and Hu¢¢ie makes a point to deconstruct and interrogate them.
However, I also argue this is a negative for Hu¢¢ie's personal development as an author and artist and symptomatic of his own failings and irresponsibility. The opposite of games like Earthbound that culminate in a healthy respect for the Paternal Metaphor concept. It's a moral failing of Homestuck to make this artistic choice. It's steeped in the deep cynicism and negativity of the author's outlook and has lead inversely to anything constructive in what it's teaching.
No.224
>>221>overlapping rulesets>comic is about symbols themselves>time-travel "An elaborate creation mythos involving lots of time travel.">>223>this conception of 'Rules and structure' is a Jungian trap that Hu¢¢ie is grillng. Possibly, my theory (or reconstruction if that makes the skeptic feel more comfortable) was about how the game was forcing the kids too quickly and too tightly into their Jungian Personas but that was (mostly) dropped pretty quickly.
I think a bigger factor is that this is just a slightly more heady version of what he finds funny. Imposing arbitrary rules on the reader inputs and seeing how they get around it. Except he would write more of it this time, and with more defined characters.
But I think there's a big hole in your theory about Hu¢¢ie being that focused on deconstructing one (1) guy. He made his strawman, Rose, a Freud fangirl. Even her cat is named after Jaspers, not Jung. I feel like if this was his direct thought process, he would have gone straight for the throat. He's not one for subtlety when it comes to things like this.
No.225
>>223For simplicity sake, The Name of the Father is a lacanian dogma that relates to Castration. Castration is an element of pseudo bio-mythistication that entails the separating of the subject from instinct and the replacement of Language, i.e. social bond to signal reification/solidarity and control drives. This is said to happen developmentally when a secondary parent comes between the first parent and the child, i.e. denying them their primary demands and inducing the way for desire, which is what the Name of the Father embodies in a mutual linguistic way.
Let's take the elements early in the comic that he has the kids devote to and share: Squiddles, Con Air and 90s cinema, furries and Rap battles. Fairly basic things that children share! One of the earliest way kids learn to perform the Name of the Father is with toys and imaginative hobbies. These introductions are pitched as creative and constructive aspects in their Jungian alchemy (Lacan might call it symbolic space but we'll digress).
Take John's literal dad and his baking. How does does the movie convey his dad loves him? By shoving cakes in his face and baking them for him. A strange, but abstracted and very straightforward paternal sigil.
These devolve into a punchline later on in the comic, and are heavily treated as either laudable and worthy of mockery at best, or malicious and stunted at growth. The problem is that Hu¢¢ie does not offer any sort of aspect of the Fatherhood metaphor in place: Everything that we spend time with our protagonist bonding them together as awkward, nerdy kids and connecting them as characters is deconstructed and treated as destructive, damaging or weird and creepy.
Take Hu¢¢ie's usage of Yiffy. Furries in the real world are a fandom that, despite its many perceived creepy and disgusting facets that often make it a taboo in pop culture (fursona is literally slang for fucking), are a group of people that band together around a concept of the Father Name. Hu¢¢ie ruthlessly mocks this with the naming of the character, and anything else that serves as a symbolized bond in language is seen through a lens of religion, irony or parody, disgust and cynicism.
>>224I think that would've been a very clever lesson (Growing up too quickly), but the comic goes in the opposite direction. More in the way of "Literally any kind of growing up or struggling together and finding shared challenges is maladaptive, deceitful and a lie that Sburb/Society forces upon you that you should resist at all cost."
He doesn't just break rules for the sake of it in his comic or patterns, half the time it's really just pettymoves to get back at readers for expecting a certain thing or believing any cohesion could help readers identify with his comic. And given this constant fight against identification, coincidentally also a big lacanian Sintomatic thing, he veers on the psychotic as far as structure goes. Any sort of growing milestones or rituals are painted with negativity, bonding with suspicion, to where even something as innocent as a Birthday is the ultimate omen of caprice.
> He made his strawman, Rose, a Freud fangirlAt the beginning yeah, but by the ending contrary to what you may think he lampoons and tears that away from Rose by the end and throws it 'in the bad' with the other supposed-childish hobbies and interests that he regards as risible.
It's possible he had a straightforward structuralist narrative in mind and grew to subvert it out of bitterness by the end, but his deconstruction completely undermines Homestuck entirely into an anti-social farce.
No.226
>>225I do think there are a few positive showings of 'Adulthood' and growth that he portrays, but they are instantly recognizable as refusals of instinct/drive and not desire, i.e. without a pure social component but singular self improvement.
Criticism against Drugs, religious fundamentalism, intoxication. This is not really a prompted response for social cohesion or the Paternal Metaphor's link- It's perfectly normal to teach a dog or some pet this, as far as self-control. But it has nothing to do with desire or their notions of love/death as far as the bifurcation of the unconscious goes.
No.227
>>225Think of films from the 80/90's, where the Name of the Father concept is always embodied by characters that help the protagonist grow up as social substance: ET, the Terminator, talking dogs, Falkor. It's not hard to understand how this furthers the idea of children understanding relationship by a shared meaning, something beyond any intrinsic human-independent domain. It would've been easy to use this in many places: The trolls, the guardians, the planet inhabitants and reptiles, even the basic exiles and friends.
Basically I'm saying if ET was in Homestuck, Hu¢¢ie would've had the kids shoot him in the face by Act 6 and celebrate with some bizarre and cynical message that 'Stuff like this is holding you back and what sburb WANTS and the only way forward is to literally throw Falkor into a woodchipper so you can be an irony-poisoned asshole rather than a scared little
8ITCH that needs rituals or any talismans to express meaning with the Other.'
No.228
>>225>I think that would've been a very clever lesson (Growing up too quickly)Yeah, if you read my posts here, that's one of my most central themes posited.
>At the beginning yeah, but by the ending contrary to what you may think he lampoons and tears that away from Rose by the end and throws it 'in the bad' with the other supposed-childish hobbies and interests that he regards as risible.Actually, he kind of does the opposite and vindicates Rose by making her right about all baseless conjecture regarding Dave- which, as I've said before, was likely done just to prop up (and perhaps unintentionally Flanderize) Dave as a comedic prop.
But, yes, any hobby that Hu¢¢ie doesn't engage in himself (which is basically anything besides playing videogames and doing le ironies) is treated with some level of derision. I disagree; I think that's basically a thing straight from the offset because Hu¢¢ie is an asshole.
>It's possible he had a straightforward structuralist narrative in mind and grew to subvert it out of bitterness by the end, but his deconstruction completely undermines Homestuck entirely into an anti-social farce."Yeah, we know."
I'm glad you're finally posting here and maybe you need to get this out into the air but I'd rather this thread be "Huh, looks like that was a dropped plot point" and "Here's where Hu¢¢ie got this idea" and "Here's where Hu¢¢ie changed plans" and all my reconstructionism ideas as opposed to the same tepid "Homestuck is a blackhole of joy" soliloquies we tend to go on.
No.230
>>228I think as far as Dave that's just his way of having his cake and eating it too. Saying that his weird incestuous obsession (def not one of Hu¢¢ie's obsessions) is so clearly obvious that even if Psychoanalysis and Freud is so clearly obviously wrong that we can see it for ourselves and don't need cocaine using beardies to tell us that.
>I'm glad you're finally posting here and maybe you need to get this out into the air but I'd rather this thread be "Huh, looks like that was a dropped plot point" and "Here's where Hu¢¢ie got this idea" and "Here's where Hu¢¢ie changed plans" and all my reconstructionism ideas as opposed to the same tepid "Homestuck is a blackhole of joy"I don't know if this aspect was a late addition or not, but I'm saying either way it seems like Hu¢¢ie either changed his mind on the Jungian Rules and structure you spoke about or always intended to refute it rather than push it genuinely.
I might want to try to organize my media theories on here. If I can workup the care and my usual fatigue to post them in an imageboard format.
No.231
>>230>Hu¢¢ie either changed his mind on the Jungian Rules and structure you spoke about or always intended to refute it rather than push it genuinely.Again, I think the original M.O was that Jung was mostly valid, it's just that it's this God machine (something inhuman; the digital age) forcing the natural process to progress too quickly.
As a matter of fact, that might be where the latent cancer symbolism came from since we know Hu¢¢ie intended to do the trolls as a separate comic before he hit his head, and we can reasonably assume that they were always intended to have created the Kids' universe. Karkat's handle would have broader symbolic relevance than the really forced layers of bullshit culpability we have to go through to make Karkat technically (partially) responsible for Bec Noir.
No.233
Also, this goes in line with what we were talking about Homestuck before but I really think people undermine Dave's shirt getting cut as a character moment for Dave.
At most you get that Dave learns Bro isn't so great but that's not what it's fucking about. Dave had already that moment when he sliced up Bro's puppets. Dave's arc is not about Bro, it's about more than just Bro. All of the Kids' arcs were (or should have been) like that. Dave's shirt getting cut by Bro should have some pretty obvious symbolism to it- it's about Dave giving up on the irony shit all together, and learning that this recursive ironic bullshit is self-indulgent and that it's better to just embrace things you genuinely enjoy. "The record stops repeating because it's scratched."
But, I think, I had an epiphany that Hu¢¢ie had no idea how to write Dave post-"ironyman" stage and that's why Act 3 is the split in the comic. Hu¢¢ie couldn't conceive of a Dave that isn't ironic in the way he could conceive of a less guarded John or Rose because Hu¢¢ie couldn't conceive of a version of himself that was less ironic.
Everyone agrees about the mini arcs with John learning that Dad is just a guy (and thus is completely sincere with him) and Rose "learns to put trust in a friend" (quote from Hu¢¢ie himself)- and these are things that we more or less go back on, at least, especially, with Rose- but nobody acknowledges Dave's micro arc.
Because you can't recognize it as an arc under the premise of Homestuck actually fucking working because "we go back on it" and it's the only one of the Kid's arcs that sort of vaguely lingers as an afterthought through the entire comic where Dave finally has a sit-down that maybe Bro isn't so great at the very end of Act 6 (whereas Rose just doesn't learn her lesson symbolically and only "gets it" once Mom gets axed- which is of course, just sloppy writing- and then copes with the fact that she was being sincere by doing retarded shit. If Dave's arc was repeated then Rose's arc was just slowed down for no real reason and then shoved in her face out of spite by the writer for nebulous reasons. And then by the end of the comic, does Rose really trust people any more? Do we get some big moment showcasing that? Not really. Dave gets his big symbolic fuck-off to Bro in Collide since that's what his arc was really about; "Fuck Bro", not distancing himself from his ironic persona in any way) even though we already got that point and symbolically got something even deeper than that.
Once again, I can't iterate enough how much of Homestuck was ruined just directly ruined because of Dave.
No.234
>>233>Once again, I can't iterate enough how much of Homestuck was just directly ruined because of Dave.Slight typo. Double ruined.
No.235
I wonder if stuff like John liking magic tricks or Rose being a goth that lives in a lavish mansion were just things ripped directly from the original Sims. Not that we can really prove it or not or that it matters all that much. But again, another thing that points to things starting to fall apart when Dave got introduced because Hu¢¢ie's hand started to stray from his primal inspirations.
No.236
>>235Reminder that one of the default Sims in The Sims 3 STRONGLY resembles Rose, Rose Lalonde.
No.237
A lot of stuff seems to me lifted from The Sims 3, actually. Like the generic object cube, and the grumpy moodlet icon being used as Karkat's face.
No.238
>>236>>237girlbait strikes again!
No.240
>>237>Like the generic object cube,Oh, how I hate it. But presumably, Hu¢¢ie only played the original and has his cohorts of Hu¢¢ies inform about the shit in the later games. That's his typical M.O.
No.241
"Also, this reminds me of Hu¢¢ie's tard式神 manifesto against presumably, Maddox, and the deep evil unfunniness of pirates, and ninjas, and calling things gay.
Just realized that Dave is a ninja and Vriska and Eridan are pirates solely for this reason."
No.242
>>241Also, while writhing in insomnia, (I think I've said this before) I had the broad idea that I think that Hu¢¢ie was making fun of the prevalence of mutants in the Marvel Universe because of X-Men by making virtually every troll a mutant and basing most of them (especially the earlier ones) on X-Men but I think, meta jokes, especially the ones in Homestuck, are basically jokes that are half-finished.
Like, I can't believe I'm saying this but you really needed someone like John to lampshade it by directly pointing it out in a silly way or you get no catharsis from recognizing it; it's not humor, it's just a fucking thing. Usually I would say that's "lowbrow" humor but it doesn't go far enough to be satirical so yes, it's just unfinished lowbrow humor. Make an actual joke instead of making a vaguely amusing parallel and making it SUPER SECRET, you fucking hackfraud.
No.244
>>242>woah, so you guys are like… the x-men! you guys are exactly like the x-men!>WHAT. NO. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.would it have been kino?
No.245
I feel like people would be way more interested in this concept if you gave it a simpler name, like a deconstruction of Homestuck and where it could have gone before Hu¢¢ie crashed out.
It just gets flak because most people on the internet are just here to fuck around and socialize, rather than decipher all of that.
No.246
>>244No, it's not like that. That seems intentionally poorly written.
It's more like (I'm not the best at this so give me a breal);
theres one guy thats super strong and multiple of you guys are psychic and even terezi can like lick her screen is that a mutation?NO.
I MEAN, PROBABLY NOT, I NEVER CARED TO FUCKING ASK. THAT'S KIND OF A SHITTY QUESTION. NOT EXACTLY A GOOD ICEBREAKER AND AS AN INLET TO ANY ACTUAL CONVERSATION, SHE'D JUST USE TO GO FULL-FORCE INTO HER USUAL WEIRD SHIT
SO FUCK OFF. WHAT'S YOUR POINT?i just have to wonder like you know how mutations work right?what the hell is the cancer rate in your society? can your health care even cover all that?whatever its just like xmen at this point theres so many mutants that not being a mutant is weird and you start to wonder why magneto hasnt just won yet due to sheer numberswhich i guess applies to you guys tooOUR GOVERNMENT USES GIANT ROBOTS TO CULL US.yeah thats xmen toobut im still not buying itARE YOU SAYING MY SPECIES' ACTUAL REALITY IS BULLSHIT?basicallyyea No.250
>>247Final proof you don't need the tags every line break.
No.251
>>250I'll kill you.
No.252
>>251Adjusted the formatting 4u
No.253
>>223For a Virgo, Hu¢¢ie doesn't actually have (or display, let's say) much respect for anything.
No.254
>>253"Like all good comedians."
No.255
>>248The first two-thirds of this thread. The heuristics guy.
No.256
>>255>The heuristics guy."Hermeneutics."
The point is to differentiate it from other things in the fandom. There are a lot of "deconstructions of Homestuck" that are myopic, self-indulgent pieces of shit that don't contextualize anything and jerk the comic off to the stars.
"Hermenutics" implies we're taking a good look at the author to try and understand the direction the comic took at each stage. Which most things revolving Homestuck just fucking don't because they assume Hu¢¢ie has some master thesis he's working towards- which is, of course, dumb because the comic was strongly
BIZNASTY in the interplay between the fandom and the creator. Originally, it was through direct inputs and eventually it devolved into the pretentious cat-and-mouse game of pandering, subversion, and encryption to irritate or sate every disparate part of the fandom in alternating phases.
I've called it a "deconstruction" and "reconstruction" in this very thread. I just think people underestimate how many cooks there were in the broth with Homestuck and assume Hu¢¢ie was an infinite well of ideas (no matter how bad they may have been) and divine inspiration.
Also, personally, I just think calling something something "Homestuck Hermenutics" is funny because it asserts a level of prestige to Homestuck which, evidently, it doesn't fucking have- despite some of the fandom's protests. I hate basically 80% of this fucking thing and genuinely believe it to be something of objectively zero artistic merit at the end of the day.
No.257
Also, Homestuck sucks because Bro (especially), Dave, or Dirk never throw their sunglasses like shurikens like Wesker.
What the FUCK was Hu¢¢ie's problem?
No.258
What the fuck was up with god tiers representing maturity and the end of the coming-of-age story while simultaneously being extremely childish (colorful pajamas, the "kiddie camper handysash", etc)
No.259
>>258In a way that slims the jargon down a bit, the synthesis of the ideal self (dreaming) and the actual self (waking) would be some kind of (Jungian) archetypal hero; this is basically just a hyperbolic version of what kids do with their existing personas though immaturely grandiose- this is part of why SBurb is meant to evil.
It should be noted that the most powerful class in the game is given to the most immature character who is literally developmentally and physically/sexually retarded. If Caliborn was human, he'd be a Downie whose brain couldn't past that of an eleven year old's and then he'd turn into a roid monster and start punching and shooting lasers everywhere.
No.260
>>259(I tried to look up another mental impairment associated more with anger issues- because I remember there being one like that- because Down's syndrome is correlated with very high agreeability which doesn't fit Caliborn at all but whatever, everyone gets the point when you just say "Downie"…)
No.261
>>259I doubt sburb is meant to be evil, it's just horrifically incompetent for some reason (the reason is Hu¢¢ie's incompetence)
No.263
Also "over a century or more" is fucking nothing to an immortal Lord Of Time.
No.264
>>261>I doubt sburb is meant to be evil,Here I would use "was." And I think it'd be a significantly better story if it "was evil." You're free to disagree with that but I have a lot of reasons and a lot of ideas about the (potential) story that connect to that.
>>262A big part of SBurb is that it supports brute force over guile which is why Caliborn just coincidentally (as coincidental as predestination can be) enters into Godhood through sheer will to power. This is part of why SBurb is a shit because the one guy who gets the mandate to become God is a tepid excuse for a villain that goes "HNRRGGGHHHH ME HORNY, KILL MY FUCKING SISTER" like that's the only part of the prophecy about his defeat. It's also a key reason why Act 6 is shit.
Your villain is a moronic force of nature and yet nobody even outwits him, they just do exactly what he knows is going to happen.
No.265
I'm honestly surprised that Homestuck never capitalized on a Sburb-themed chess set.
Then again, I suppose it wouldn't be fun if the second player is destined to win without exception.
No.266
>>265>Then again, I suppose it wouldn't be fun if the second player is destined to win without exception.You don't need to play by that rule, silly.
No.282
Never realized how much Hu¢¢ie used the word 'cagey' in Homestuck. Wonder why.
No.284
>>282He seems fairly private. Probably a word that comes up often with him.
Not that I can't relate
No.285
>>282His vocabulary is incredibly limited unless he's reading straight from his thesaurus (which he definitely does NOT do even though a solid 30% of Homestuck's humor is predicated on big words, and/or awkwardly extensive, and/or antiquated way of saying things. You VVILL believe him.)
No.286
>>285Has anyone compiled the most used words in Homestuck? I keep finding the 'word count' and 'amount of words that [insert character here] has said'.
No.288
>>286I think it's "ass" by far (mostly because of compound words like big-ass and whatnot). I also think Dave and Karkat (the two biggest talkers) use "ass" the most, even despite Karkat being known as
FUCKMAN. No.290
>>289>The classpect system doesn't work for anythingFull stop.
No.294
>>293/hot/ is slow enough already, and every post on /ysg/ is a precious jewel to me. They can stay
No.296
>>157Again, I guess this is the part where I admit that 2perg was "right" or rather that I got off on the wrong foot. (I remembered because I was rereading my book on the train.) I wanted to apply structuralism to Homestuck to show how it fails at creating its own "structure" and by inductive reasoning, every framework for classes and aspects are logically incoherent; bullshit.. Let me actually attempt to do that now since all I said before was that was what I wanted to do.
To put it into simple terms, a large part of structuralism is things being defined by their opposite. The fact that there are not especially clear opposites in Homestuck already makes it a failure, there is a lot of overlap in Homestuck and while there is some consensus on the opposites with aspects (though there are still some outlier theories and again, a lot of overlap), nobody can agree on class dynamics (even though there are some clear pairs, they are not "opposites"- Thief and Rogue are a clear pair but they both still steal and there is no class that is said to "purely give".) "Passive" and "active" are terms whose exact definitions depend on the exact relation we're describing. Internal consistency goes out the window.
Furthermore, to reference the image, Homestuck's classes and aspects are not "transformative." Every model of a circular, transformative model of Homestuck's aspects is an even bigger clusterfuck (ever notice how the fandom cares far more about aspects than titles? It's because they're more abstract, there's more intellectual wiggle room while classes are titles which are supposedly intuitive but ultimately just as arbitrary) that jumps through inconsistent levels of abstraction and often has no rhyme or reason to the procession of its opposites (with some being directly related to each other through transformation while others are further away; the one exception where this would make sense is Time and Space but that's never the case.)
Finally, and most ironically, the system is not self-regulating because the Aspects are implied to be fundamental elements of reality as opposed to the (softly, not fully) subjectivist model of structuralism. The Aspects do not exist to self-regulate the game; they are metaphysical. (Then again, so is the game- whether all universes in Homestuck are created by the game is rather ambiguous- but the comic goes out of its to further Reify the Aspects into physical reality through Lord English's cracks in space.)
This is all an attempt to disprove any and every classpect theory. I chose structuralism because it was the most abstract, base model for well, "structures", possible. This makes it especially apt for Homestuck. All we needed was clear and intellectually consistent connectivity (pure, actual opposites- say if, Knight was someone who protected their Aspect and Heir was someone who is protected by their Aspect, but this is universally acknowledged as not their actual opposites. Let me chime in and say that the other pair in a hypothetical Homestuck would be "Witch" and "Maid"- one who attempts to undermine their Aspect and one who reinforces their Aspect.) and then we would work from there on the coherence. But we don't have that. We have a fundamentally broken and lazy system.
This is applying an intellectual framework to a story to explore how it doesn't work within it- and by extension, inductively why no system would work to "structure" it. I don't see why it's so wrong to then inverse it to try and make it fit. I've mentioned this before, this is just me actually proving it with a specific excerpt from my book.
No.299
>>296Also, I guess this is to say that the depth of the critique of the comic with these concepts isn't so deep. It's just that the sheer scope of how I'd change the comic
BIZNASTY off these ideas is. It's quite simple, really.
No.301
>>296>Knight was someone who protected their AspectIt's not?!?
No.302
>>296>the other pair in a hypothetical Homestuck would be "Witch" and "Maid"Missing the Miko! Unless we'd make that shrine(maid)en
No.303
>>301"It is" very vaguely but I'm saying it would still be this in a theoretical new system where "Heir" is seen as its counterpart (it's not, neither really have clear ones; we can go over the examples of the pairs that people agree upon)
>>302I wouldn't use those names. I think I've said in this thread that I'd completely use stock fantasy class names instead to make things more readable.
No.304
>>303
No Witches or Maids? Those are classic paydirt!
No.305
>>304The idea (very recently revised) was to have the classpects as thus:
Paladin of Nike, Priestess for Apollo, Warrior from Leucothea, and Seer to Aeolus.
I'm trying to figure out the best synonym and preposition for GREEN to make both her rebelliousness and her precognition immediately clear or at least not have implied contradiction. No.306
>>305I was trying to make something happen with prepositions there too but I'd probably have to read more to make them meaningful.
Those are their new Denizens and what's actually important is the element they represent which is universal for all sessions despite using different pantheons (is how I'd do it.)
No.307
>>305>>306In fact, I might swap them around.
No.308
>>305>>307Mostly because "from" and "to" should be reserved for a pair of opposites but I can't think of another proper dichotomy for prepositions.
No.309
>>305>>306>>307>>308I guess "of" and "for" works because "for" implies they don't originate from the object and imply a sort of different cardinal momentum.
So it goes like this now:
Paladin to Nike. Priestess of Apollo. Warrior for Leucothea, and Seer from Aeolus.
No.310
Hope you enjoyed that mindless self-indulgence.
No.311
It should be noted that none of the Kids' grist types associate with their elements. You just get a ton of elongated hexagonal bipyramids, cubes, tears, and diamonds.
My system would have the polygons associated with the elements of the characters be their shapes of their grist (both for building and from battling- build grist should not exist; I'd restructure the game so that everyone needs to enter and be invaded in order to help the first player in the chain progress) with the exception of GREEN who gets the shape of aether which is her associated object.
None of this is relevant or internally consistent in Homestuck proper.
I can't sleep.
No.315
>>314Kinda. I felt it bubbling for about a year or two now, especially as worked on some of the HS themes and banners.
It's highly (and arguably intentionally/spitefully) imperfect, but a "formative work", and you can't be ashamed of that type of thing forever.
But to that blogpost, I don't think Homestuck or even the superior Umineko will ever do "Spiderverse" numbers, because you have to read
No.316
>>314>>314It will see some fandom success with aoomers and zoomers (as it is already doing) but none of this will amount to any broader culture movement or anyone making of their own that's of note.
That is to say that it doesn't really matter.
No.319
>>317Oh, yeah, and don't even try to get me on trying to also integrate Hu¢¢ie's half-baked data structurisms alongside those two things, holy shit, lmao.
No.320
Hello Aranea-Anon, it is I, that guy from /co/. I have a question for you.
Got a voice headcannon for Aranea?
No.321
>>179>rather it is more about what is ego-adjacent and what is a self-defense mechanism against a perceived incongruity with the ego.Let me correct myself from the past here very hard here
*Ego Syntonic
and
*Ego Dystonic
These aren't me just finding the different words for things. These are different concepts. Ultimately, both are defense mechanisms though one is closer to the ego and the other is closer to reconciling reality with the ego. This is an incredibly important distinction and is far more meaningful than again, classifying actions as relatively rational or egocentric because again, they're both egocentric- one is just healthier and less focused on rationalizing the external world and more focused on rationalizing the ego.
No.393
>>392I change it monthly now, but you can pick ol reliable yotsubaB in the options. Since July's won't be any less CSS maximalist
No.394
>>392
And GREEN was born doomed, sorry. Rose imageboard
No.398
>>392/co//v/id talking point. Hu¢¢ie clearly had it out for at least like 40% of the cast by Act 6.
>>394Also, this, she was never really a concern of his. I think he spat way more on Karkat, Terezi, and Rose, etc and for way less valid reasons. A big part of why
GREEN is a useless jobber is because Hu¢¢ie has no idea how to write powerscaling. Gamzee becoming a murder hobo and Feferi dying for no reason were things done basically just out of spite and spite alone.
No.399
>>398>/co//v/id talking pointMy bad
No.406
>>133Why the fixation on religion? Is this a predisposed interest or do you only care about how Homestuck utilized those themes? Talking in the context of your "rewrite".
No.411
>>406>Is this a predisposed interestYes, I say as much in this thread, I think. I am a religious studies minor.
>do you only care about how Homestuck utilized those themesMoreover, I will also repeat that "given its premise, its not really a stretch." The best way, in my head, would be direct and obvious references to specific mythos and a vague hero's journey parallel (which I would use as a sort of meta way to gripe about perennialism but I digress.)
There are things in the comic proper which I don't consider good religious symbolism, it's just pretty unarguably there. Some of the more obscurant shit can be argued but it runs into "It has literally no other reason to exist other than that". For example, specific things like Dave's dreamself and waking self both being awake at the same time is a fairly obscure alchemical reference. Part of why I know that was "it" was because the fans were really invested in the alchemy shit at the time and talked up a storm about it on the forums- I unfortunately have no evidence for this. I wonder why Hu¢¢ie nuked the forums with no given reasoning or forewarning.
It's also a fixation of the fandom and much of what I say either minimizes or debunks overarching religious interpretations.
It should be noted that we went into the comic with a turntechGodhead doing the time travel Holy Trinity PI thing being vaguely layed out. Nothing about ninjas or paradox clones or the giant skeleton's rainbow robe being vored by his conjoined ghost sister. Just that, "something something creation mythos", and The Sims * an adventure game, basically. Even alchemicalisms, Homestuck's most interesting part, were an emergent property.
To surmise, I don't put much stock in Homestuck's religious allusions as they are (they come and go), and I think my version would stay away from time travel for the most part and world religions (again, only mythos)
Also, only vaguely related to all this is that Hu¢¢ie should have realized he seriously
SMURFED up when he made his time travel comic into a doomsday comic as well and he could still only barely rationalize it by the end of the comic.
>What happens if GREEN and Dave went back after John started the game and shrunk the meteors?We don't really know. It's a pile of shit.
No.418
Also, something I find conspicuous despite "Platonic ideal this, Platonic ideal that" and Hu¢¢ie's "very, very good vocabulary, he would never, ever use a thesaurus" is his lack of use of the word "eidolon" despite it arguably being more apt, less wordy, and it showing a broader understanding of Platonic thought. In particular, you would think the section with acausal slime ghosts would bear mentioning eidolons, especially considering that they have an associated item.
You would also think that the trolls' associated items would have some relevance (or just, exist) but we only ever get to see Aradia's(I think?) This would at least be another way to make the ANCESTRAL CHUCKLEVOODOO retcon less obnoxious.
But the main point here is, again, that the intellectual backdrop that Hu¢¢ie has dDIAPd over the comic is pretty incongruous and he doesn't know what the SMURF he's talking about.